By-laws or policies

[donert]

What is your opinion on Troop by-laws or policies? Does BSA policies serve well enough to run an effective program?

[beaver1onit]

 

You have to have it spell out especially for the "PARENTS."

[OldGreyEagle]

First we need to understand terms. Do you mean By-Laws as in how many meetings a quarter a scout has to attend to advance, or do you mean a booklet which lists the day of the week the troop meets, when dues are due and who collects them, etc. Sometimes informational items get confused with the term by-laws. I can see why a troop would have an introductory booklet with the above information regarding meeting nights and times, sharing rides, insuruance requirements for driving scouts, phone numbers of key leaders, all that. Those I dont consider By-Laws. To me By-Laws are written policies normally covering such things as attedance and other items related to advancement although not always. SOme Troop By-Laws have a Code of Conduct, which always surprise me as thats the Scout Law. But, thats only my opinion, I could be wrong. Do you have some situation in mind that you think isnot addressed by BSA policies

[evmori]

As long as the by-laws aren't restates of BSA policy. If they define meeting dates & times & dues & stuff like that, sure.

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[Hunt]

This subject has been extensively discussed here before, with some arguing that BSA's policies are enough, and others arguing that troop by-laws and policies may be necessary. Back when we were having this discussion, I was of the view that troops might need some rules (preferably set by the PLC)--however, I must say that when I went on the web and looked at actual troop by-laws and policies, the majority of them included rules that are contrary to BSA rules and policies, especially with respect to advancement--things like limitations on parents counseling merit badges, the number of merit badges a single counselor can counsel, etc., and they also included a lot of rules that looked to me like adults exerting their power over the boys. As a result, I now think that the issue of troop bylaws or rules should only be raised AFTER the troop has leaders--both adult and boy--who have been trained and really understand the BSA's policies and rules. If, at that point, the PLC wants to institute a rule against iPods on campouts, it's OK from my point of view.

[Beavah]

Yah, I can't think of a single troop I've ever known that didn't have it's own rules or policies. There's always somethin' a group is strugglin' with, and there's always a need for communicating "standard operating procedure." Of course many CO's will have policies that are bindin' on units, too.

 

I got a chuckle out of Hunt's list, because there are some councils out there who have some of the rules he listed. Local rules are part of what the BSA is. But I agree with him and OGE in principle, I don't like to see troops have long Bylaws and Policy documents. Those really do seem like a lot of unnecessary adult intervention.

 

OTOH, Troop Committee bylaws, kept short and straightforward, can be helpful in gettin' everyone on the same page. They can be particularly helpful when a group of "young turks" joins a committee and wants to change everything, by providin' an organized way to slow things down and deliberate, but also move forward with changes. Helps de-fuse "personalities." Yeh gotta come up with those on your own; there's no BSA version because unit committees are so diverse across COs that one size wouldn't fit anybody.

 

[scoutldr]

Ed said, "As long as the by-laws aren't restates of BSA policy."

 

Since mere mortals can't see the "Rules and Regulations of the BSA", which are kept on the SE's desk, how would we know?

 

Problem is, all of the BSA policies aren't in one place. You need to BUY about 50 different BSA publications to get them all. I've mentioned before, it sure would be nice if the BSA would put everything on-line or on a CD in .pdf version. The OA has started doing that, and it's nice to be able to reference the latest version. Add 50 cents to everyone's registration fee to make up the revenue lost...it would be worth it! Even an online FAQ would be a good start!

[Trevorum]

fox, an excellent question and one that we rassle with on a periodic basis her on the forums. However, our cast of characters (and I use that word advisedly) changes regularly, so there's alwayts a new perspective.

 

I agree with Beavah that all troops have some protocols that are unique to their unit. And I agree with OGE that having some kind of written "primer" is a good thing to hand to new families. Units can't rewrite the advancement regs, but there are always some issues that need to be spelled out because there will always be somebody (usually a parent) who will push the line as far as they can. Issues with money are particularly troublesome and should be spelled out. For example, can Johnny transfer the results of his fundraising efforts to another troop? Can he use those funds for his Eagle project or just for summer camp? Our troop also has explicit policies on what types of unacceptable behaviors will get a scout sent home from a campout.

[Aquila calva]

When it comes to a troop Code of Conduct, I gave up trying to write one a long time ago. Guess what? It has already been written and is available to everyone. (And no, it is not "just" the Scout Oath and Law, although they are a great place to start.) It is the Participant Statement of Understanding and Code of Conduct that is page 4 of the application to the World Jamboree. It was also part of the National Jamboree application and even may be part of other high adventure applications like Philmont and Sea Base. It is really a good document!

 

Every new scout family that joins our troop gets a copy of that page 4. No one has to sign it but everyone is expected to read it and understand it. Parents have an ah haa moment when they read it. Our troop expects everyone to uphold these high standards. End of discussion.

 

Click on the National BSA website link below. Then enter World Jamboree in the search box. At this page, click on the Scouter/Venturer Application. It is page 4 of this pdf file. Copy it and give it to everyone in your troop.

 

http://www.scouting.org/nav/media/index.html

 

(Maybe someone else knows how to post a link that goes directly to this document.)

 

 

 

[wffarrell]

Every troop is unique. Every troop has it's own history and style.

 

I think that if a troop has "Lawyer" as a committee position, they've gone too far. Some troops operate using the Scout Oath and Law as their bylaws. Hat tip to them, I assure you!

 

For the rest of us there needs to be further clarification. Fees and camping policies, for example, can be codified in bylaws. Reimbursement for travel, or not, how to submit expenses.

 

Scoutmaster evaluation and succession policies may be important to some troops and not others.

 

Whatever the bylaws or policies a troop decides to adopt, it's very important to explain them in detail to new parents when Scouts join a unit to prevent misunderstandings. In my experience I have observed that parent-parent conflicts occur more often than Scout-Scout conflicts!

[fotoscout]

By-Laws are usually expected to be VERY ridge and inflexible. Their intent is to firmly establish rules and policies by which the troop or pack will operate. They can cover advancement, attendance, conduct, uniforms, fund-raising, leader positions, leader tenure, and many more things. By-Laws are by definition, used to remove any and all flexibility or discretionary decision making that a unit may have. Mind you I did not call the by-laws "guidelines". They are not guidelines, they are "black and white" rules, without any flexibility.

 

Most units that have by-laws, have them as the result of something bad that occurred in the units history. So as the result of the "bad" episode, the committee wrote and adopted by-laws. Every unit I know of that has by-laws, hates them.

 

My feeling is that the BSA policies offer more than enough guidance with respect to operating a unit. The BSA policies allow us to deal with special situations, by-laws don't.

[kb6jra]

My Troop's Policy and Procedures Manual is 96 pages long...(I'll wait for the murmur to die down)...

 

Most of it is a reprint of the BS Handbook, Fieldbook, PL/SPL handbooks, SM Handbook(s), (all proper credit given where due) cooking recipies, suggested equipment list, How-to's like; buying a sleeping bag, tent, back pack, prepare for a long hike (Philmont style trek), etc., job descriptions for youth and adult positions, minimum requirements for those positions (rank, training, previous POR tenure).

 

Some of it, probably 8 - 10 pages worth, are further clarifications of the above refrences, as well as troop interpretation (not the best word to use, but you get the idea) of BSA policy and guildelines.

 

Each unit, Pack, Troop, Team, and Crew have thier own culture and needs. Usually the only people that need reminding of what the rules are and what they exactly mean are the parents. If you don't spell it out for them, they will subvert your program, so it's always a good idea to get it into a written form and give them a copy when they join, encourage them to read it and ask questions.

 

A typical parent will never check out the troops SM handbook, SPL handbook, or even the BS Handbook and read a single page. But they will question you on every decision you make while keeping in mind what those handbooks say. It's a fact of life, and human nature, unfortunately.

 

Bit of a background for me. When I joined Cubs with my son (actually my wife volunteered me, so it's all her fault actually) they current CM and WDL handed me a 5 page document and made me sign a contract before reading it saying that I'd agree to "it". Well, "it" was "--it" all right. The Thou Shalt Not's of the pack. I hated it, and so did every one else. The second year I was asked to take over as CM. My first ceremony was to tear up the document and toss it in the trash. I got a standing ovation from the parents.

 

When I joined this Scout Troop, I was handed this 96 page monster, and thought to my self "what did I get myself into". I fretted about it for weeks before actually opening it up and reading it. It's a how to, not a manifesto. The council uses it in trainings and demonstrations of what to do in a unit...