how far to do we let boy-led go?

[gwd-scouter]

Here's our scenario.

 

Boys made the calendar last September for the year. The spelunking trip, much anticipated, is coming up in April. So far, we have not deviated in any way from their calendar.

 

At roundtable last week the Spring District Camporee was finally announced for the same weekend our Troop is planning to go caving. Usually the spring and fall camporee dates are announced at the fall annual district roundtable, but no one would step up to plan or schedule the one for spring - so this was very last minute.

 

SPL at last Monday's meeting told everyone about the Camporee - a shooteree sponsored by a local gun club. Fun for everyone right?

 

But, it's scheduled for when we've already planned to go on this cave trip that the boys have been looking forward to since they put it on the calendar last September.

 

Most of the boys said why can't we do both? The problem is the adults having to give up more time to do both within just a couple of weeks.

 

Just wondering what you forum folks would do?

 

[scoutldr]

If the adults can't accomodate both, the boys need to choose one. It's really not fair of the District to schedule stuff last minute. Were it my troop, I think we would stick to the original plan. Our Council calendars are set for the year, so the troop can plan around it.

[DugNevius]

the boys pick which one they want to go to. plain and simple.

[C-BOLT]

You should let the boys go spelunking.

 

If you were to deviate from the original plan, it may cause some scouts to be unhappy, and ultimately, would defeat the purpose of a boy led troop.

 

All I know is that if I was looking forward to a cave trip for several months, and found out we had to go on a campout instead, I'd be unhappy.

[Gonzo1]

I'd say go spelunking, but you could do both, if and only if adults can do both.

 

If they events are 2 or more weeks apart, you could do both fairly easily and maybe drop another outing the month after that isn't as exciting as spelunking.

 

 

[Lisabob]

How far do you let boy-led go? Well I think you set the parameters: here's what we (adults) can support. And then you let them fill in the details. You have a small troop so it might be a serious burden on the adults to do both. Sometimes we have to make choices. OK, that's part of the parameters.

 

What do your boys want to do more? If they really prefer to do the "shooteree" then that's fine as long as it is their choice and not because some district big wig brow beats them into attending. If they say sorry, we already have a plan for that month and we're sticking with it, maybe whoever ends up planning next year's district event will understand the need to get the dates out in a more timely fashion.

 

If they decide to cancel the spelunking this month, is there a chance that they could schedule it for another time (say, over the summer or early in next year's calendar) to make it up, if they wanted to?

 

 

[Eamonn]

At dinner last night I had to choose between the Irish grilled trout and the Irish roasted spring rack of lamb.

OK! I cheated, I had the trout and took the lamb home with me for lunch today.

Sadly we don't always get the opportunity to do everything that we might like.

I can't help but feel that there is a life lesson in what is happening!

What would happen if you asked the District to change the date? I'm sure other units must be in a similar situation.

Failing that asking the Scouts what they want to do, explaining that maybe doing both would be very expensive and finding adult leadership more than lightly is going to make both not possible.

The annual plan is a good tool, but nothing says it can't be changed if there is a need.

Eamonn.

[JerseyJohn]

Why not offer both?

 

G2SS recommends limiting caving to 14yo or older. Surely you have scouts younger than 14.

 

Offer the district event to the younger scouts.

 

On a second note, there may be some scouts who may not be interested or have the money to do a caving trip. A less expensive district event may get more boys out camping that weekend.

 

YIS

John

 

 

[SR540Beaver]

Not to hijack the thread, but how many folks out there have both a Spring and Fall Camporee? Within our council and district, we have Webelos Woods, summer camp and Camporee. Out of 12 months, that is a quarter of your program being dicatated by someone other than the boys.....if they elect to paticipate. There have been years where our boys have chosen to do something they want rather than go to camporee. I guess holding two can be viewed as a good or bad thing. Bad if you feel obligated because it does not allow your boys to do their own planning and good in that you could participate in one, but not both.

 

To answer your question. When a district waits that long to plan and gives short notice, they had better be prepared to accept what attendance they can get. The boys set their calendar of events within the boundaries of what the adults can support. If they have a cave trip planned and still want to do it, let them. That was their plan. If camporee sounds better to them, allow them to change their plans. Just don't let the poor planning of the district dictate your boy's program.

[Eagledad]

>>How far do you let boy-led go? Well I think you set the parameters: here's what we (adults) can support. And then you let them fill in the details.... Sometimes we have to make choices.

[Lisabob]

To answer Beaver's question - our district and council hold a Fall, Winter, and Spring event. They have not run a summer camp in the past, although this year they're doing a 4-day, 3-night first year long weekend summer program (mini camp). Some troops around here ONLY go camping when the district arranges something so I guess I understand the desire to at least have one event each season. As for our troop, we rarely attend these events. Actually I'd kind of like to see the troop do these more often if only so that the boys can see how other troops do things and maybe learn from them too.

[evmori]

1st off, I wanna have what Eamonn had for dinner & lunch! Yummy!

 

If the adults can fit both into their schedule, great! If not, can the caving trip be rescheduled so the Troop can go to the camporee? If not, the Scouts need to pick one. Tough decision, but then in life, tough decisions need to be made.

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[EagleInKY]

What a great opportunity you are confronted with! This is truly a time where scouts can learn the pains and challenges of making important decisions that affect others.

 

I'd suggest getting your PLC together for a "special conference". The SM may have to help lead this if your SPL isn't experienced. But use it as a teaching opportunity. Have the SPL list the options on a board. I can think of several:

 

-Do Spelunking / no camporee

-Do camporee / no spelunking

-Offer both, with boys having an either/or option

-Offer both, but limit spelunking to older boys

-Shift the date of spelunking back to May (or another month) and do both

 

 

Have them list the pros and cons of each. I think they'll come to a good decision. Then, let them explain the decision to the troop.

 

Use opportunities like this to teach these important life-skills.

[ASM915]

gwd,

Is there a parent of one of the scouts that could attend one of the events with a registered scouter?

Could your DH head up the spelunking expedition with a parent or other scouter, and you attend the camporee with the under 14 crowd with another parent, depending on the weather and how it might effect you condition?

[DugNevius]

we are in a similar situation

 

this up comming weekend is our 10th annual Troop Olympics. The scouts compete in patrol and individual events of athleticism and skills.

 

We have a scout working on eagle. A deathbed eagle if yu will. He turns 18 in mid april and his eagle project has originally been planned for a saturday two weeks ago but because of the weather here in NJ it was cancled that weekend and the past weekend as well. Because of a trip to greece april 3rd he has but 2 weekends left and is hoping that the troop olympics could be moved.

 

Its being presented to the Greenbar (PLC) tomorrow at the beginning of our meeting. Its up to them. And the weather. Right now we have a good 4 inches of icey snow on the ground which makes it impossible to do the project and difficult to do the olympics.