Which way are we heading?

[Eamonn]

Have been talking with a friend who has different idea that me!! (Yes we can still be friends.)

Talking mainly about programs for older youth/ young adults.

He seems happy to take what ever leadership they will offer.

I tend to take the high road and am willing to cancel an event or not do anything that they don't get involved with and do most of the work for.

He is happy if a youth just wants to participate in what ever they want to participate in. If this means they only attend one event a year. That's fine with him.

I'm having a hard time with that one.

Still I kinda think at the end of the day -He is going to be on the winning team and me and my old stick in the mud ideas are going to be left in the dirt.

I see what he is doing as being more of a "Club" than what I might call Scouting.

Where as he is happy to organize an event,and allow anyone who has the time to just show up with no real dead lines or youth planning -I'm not sure if this is the organization I want to be a part of?

While our conversations have been about Venturing and Sea Scouting, more and more I see this sort of "Hey if you are free come on down!" program being offered to older Boy Scouts.

While I'm not big on rules that set attendance levels. I do kinda, expect some level of committment.

I'm a little unsure if this Activity Club is the way to go about reaching our vision and mission?

Ea.

[scoutldr]

Stay on the high road, E. I'm with you. What your friend describes is, indeed, more like a club. What comes to mind is the local YMCA. They plan the programs and offer their facilities to whomever wants to show up. The difference is, to have that available to me would cost me $55 a month for a membership. They take my money and provide opportunities. I can either go every day, once a month, or not at all. Makes no diff to them...they got my money already. What Scouting offers is training and experience in planning, leading and partaking of your own efforts. Different mission, different results. And different costs.

[theysawyoucomin']

I'm with "y'all"

 

The YMCA way doesn't make the boys plan. They are really not in charge of anything. What responsibilty do thay learn? They have a great program it's just different from Scouts.

 

A 14 year old boy ought to be in charge of something. Heck they don't police themselves at that age they may as well be the quartermaster. Gives them an investment in the unit.

[anarchist]

Can I jump sorta in the middle of this range????

 

I think in Boy Scouting (at least) we can do a bit of both...with the other older boys (not adults) doing the planning- and the clubbers going along for the ride...as long as their "mates" don't have a problem with it...You never know when one of the clubbers might just get bitten by the "bug" and start contributing...if they want to coast- that can be ok as long as they do not expect to share in all of the rewards of the hard work (rank and leadership) ( in other words -just don't ask Mr. Anarchist to sit a board for that old "freebie", (feel good), unearned rank).

 

We have several good kids, who really like the outdoors program, don't like to plan (make decisions), don't want to be in PORs, but will participate in the program. We also have a fair number of "A" types who will do the planning and prep work and see to it that the "clubbers" do some grunt work...so why not? Most of the "clubbers" will not get close to Eagle but have fun and some even have great camping skills. They are "buds" to the "A" personalities.

 

Some of these guys are great to have around -they can find "fun" in a rainy day! As long as they do not "poison the soup" or disrupt the program I don't see any harm. In a small ship or crew it could be different as well as difficult but that seems to be a problem with all small organizations. Seems a "critical mass" must be attained in most organizations for good operational health (and sanity).

 

Sometimes a crew or ship might sound like a good idea but unless you have enough bodies to really work on the problems the few who do work hard sooner or later burn out. Getting to that "critical mass" of hard workers appears to be what makes (or breaks) a small organization.

 

as always good luck Eamonn

Anarchist

[Eamonn]

Having never had a lot to do with the YMCA, I can't really comment on what they do or how they work.

The Ship was working on a new mission statement. When they get the bugs worked out I'll post what they come up with.

While they were working on this a couple of us old folks were chatting.

Someone asked me about my short term goal for the Ship and the Scouts.

I said that my goal was to have all the Scouts have great tans and be able to have fun messing about in boats!!

The tans will come from them participating in lots of outdoor activities and before they can really mess about in boats they need to master the skills.

Coming from land locked Pennsylvania,about three hours from the big lake. Most of the youth we have join have little or no experience being anywhere near a boat.

Learning the skills does take time and does require a commitment.

The friend I was talking to is involved in a Crew. Which as far as I know has been fairly successful. This summer they will say goodbye to the original group that were there when the Crew started. They are thinking of adding a Ship to the Crew, in order to offer a wider range of activities for the youth.

Some of it might be a PR move. My friend says that a group of well turned out Sea Scouts in uniform will attract more youth!! I don't know about that?

I think there is a difference between being able to sail and just going on a sail.

While taking new members out is fine and dandy and it might be fun and a bit of an adventure. I think it lacks the challenge. Without the challenge of mastering or at least getting good at anything it gets old real quick.

Of course some youth love to be in the limelight and center stage, while others shy away from doing anything.

Still when we as an organization shy away from teaching both types how to be real leaders we will have missed out on a lot of what I see us being about.

Ea.

[anarchist]

Eamonn writes;

 

"Still when we as an organization shy away from teaching both types how to be real leaders we will have missed out on a lot of what I see us being about."

 

ahh...as they say "theres the rub"... (to continue "cliche-ville") we can lead our horses to water...but we can't make them leaders...er drink...

 

Maybe though, if we can keep them around, dangling their toes in the water, they might pick up some ideas...even if they never quite come around to wanting to be leaders...

 

One of the primary reasons my youngest "retired" from scouting rather than continue in his older brothers foot steps to Eagle was quite simply he did not want to do any more PORs. He did not want to be a leader, he wanted to be an "indian". Seemingly, his excellent scouts skills just kept the SMs and ASMs asking for "more" -and he- being unable to say "no", finally just "got out of Dodge".

 

If a boy will come along, I hardly see the need to say no and if he picks up a little knowledge or leadership here and there great...

 

All of this is quite different from the scout who vanishes for two years and drops back "in" to ask to be given a POR or expects to be elected by boys who have never even seen him...or who expects the SM and CC to drop everything to work on scheduling their lives around his new found desire to get an Eagle ticket punched...or the boy who is a drag on the program, creats hard feelings and problems, doesn't do his share of grunt work...or sits around the crew room complaining rather than watching (at least) and/or making just life tough for the ship/crew...etc.

 

anarchist

 

 

[Stosh]

I find this discussion very interesting in light of recent observations I have made. First of all I'm a Crew Advisor, but decided to assist the Boy Scouts with their spring camporee. While all the adults sat around scratching their heads trying to come up with something for the boys to do at the camporee, the OA contingent of boys came in and made an announcement that they were organizing their Indian Ceremonial group on making clothing. If anyone in our troops wanted to help out with this project they were invited. Ok. Then about a half hour later they came back selling buttons for a local festival in the district as a fund raiser for OA. Ok. Then it dawned on me. Isn't OA supposed to be promoting camping and the outdoors for the boys? Why aren't they planning the camporee? I have yet to see the OA really function as they are supposed to. They do great call out, ceremonies, and elaborate ordeals, but whenever I see them doing anything it's mostly just for themselves.

 

We're emphasizing the patrol method for this years spring camporee. Instead of troops registering, they will register as patrols, either a NBP, Regular or Veteran patrols. The activities will reflect the various differences and competitions geared for the differences as well. The boys need to be able to lead themselves.

 

Now, if we can get the boys to plan their own camporee, maybe we will have accomplished what we're supposed to be doing in the first place.

 

Stosh

[Eamonn]

While we might not to admit it.

Most units seem to in some ways follow the interests of the adults.

Back when I was a SM I know my want to get out of town at weekends led to the Troop camping as much as we did, my love for messing around with pioneering projects led to us doing pioneering.

We have one Scout Troop in the Council where it seems that their entire program is built around going to Philmont. They have an older SM who openly admits he would like nothing better than to die on the trail!!

Even as a Cubmaster I know I was far more shall we say sympathetic and understanding about soccer than many other Cubmasters because I was a soccer coach.

I'm very much in favor of there being more events and opportunities open to and for our older youth members. In fact I think we as an organization don't do a very good job of meeting their needs.

Many Boy Scout Troops are happy to follow a program that really doesn't change much from year to year and requires little planning and even less imagination.

Attending the Council summer camp doesn't need a lot of youth leadership either before the event and in a lot of cases even at the event.

A fair number of the older youth look upon this same old, same old as being just that the same old, same old.

They want to do what ever it is that comes next.

While maybe? Planning all of a Super Activity, if indeed it was really super? Might be a lot to expect.

Again referring to the conversation with my friend.

It seems one of the adults planned a weekend activity and set a deadline.

After the deadline had gone by, only a couple of members had signed up.

He said that this was to be expected and they (the adults had made plans expecting a far greater number to attend.)

I'm happy that the members will get to participate in the event. I'm sure once they are there doing what ever it is they are doing they will have a good time.

But ... (You knew it was coming!)

What is the life lesson we are teaching?

Is the lesson more important than the event?

Should our focus be on staging events or is their more to what we do than just provide a bunch of activities that are enjoyable?

At some stage doesn't what we do come back to what the words in the Scout Oath and Law mean?

If we don't ask the youth to step up and take responsibility, even for themselves? Surely we will become little more than some sort of theme park.

Ea.