Scout Spirit... Redux

[OldGreyEagle]

Of all the topics we fuss and feud over, the measuring of Scout Spirit has got to be in the top 2 or so. I want to take another run through it, using the scout handbook as my source. The following is what the scout handbook says about Scout Spirit:

 

Scout Spirit Defined p 47

Scout Spirit refers to the effort you make to live up to the ideals of Scouting. The Oath, Law, Motto, and Slogan serve as everyday guidelines for a good life.

 

Tenderfoot, Requirement #13 p60

discuss scout spirit with your scoutmaster and with older boy scouts in your troop. Ask them for examples of how you can demonstrate Scout Spirit . You will likely hear examples of the Scout Oath and Law as ways to show your Scout spirit

 

Second Class Requirement #9 p108

Most requirements for Scout ranks can be measured by other people. When you set out to swim 50 feet for the Second Class swimming requirement, anyone can see that you have covered the distance. How well you live the Scout Oath and Scout Law in your life, though is something for you to judge. You know when you are being kind, when you are helpful and a good friend. You know when you are trustworthy. and reverent. You alone know how you act when no one is around to witness what you do. Do the best you can to live each day by the Scout Oath and Law. You might look back on some of the decisions you've made and wish you had acted differently, but you can learn from those moments and promise yourself you will do better in the future. And dont be surprised that when you use the scout oath and law for guidance, others will recognize those values in you and respect you for it. Set high standards for yourself and strive to reach them. No one can ask anymore of you

 

First class Requirement #10 p164

At troop and patrol gatherings you've recited the Scout Oath and the Scout Law dozens of times. The words come easily to you, but do you know what those words mean? The Scout Oath and Scout Law are not just for reciting at meetings. They are not just to be obeyed while you are wearing a uniform. The spirit of Scouting that they represent is every bit as important when you are at home, at school and in your community. The Scout Oath begins with the words, "On my honor. . ." Your honor is your word. By giving your word, you are promising to be of good character and to keep your reputation untarnished. Be trustworthy in all you say and do. Extend friendship to others. Be thrifty with your time and resources. Be tolerant of others, regardless of their differences, and celebrate the great diversity that enriches our nation and the world. Express reverence in accordance with your beliefs. Offer a helping hand because you want to, not because you expect a reward. The standards set by the Scout Oath and Scout Law are very high Strive to reach them every day, and you will find that they become as natural for you to live by as they are for you to say.

 

Star/Life/Eagle p170

BY NOW, DOING GOOD TURNS should be a regular part of your life You are always on the lookout for ways to help others.

By now, Be Prepared should describe your efforts to make the most of educational opportunities, get along with others, and take part in outdoor adventures. By now, the Scout Oath and the twelve points of the Scout law should be the guidelines by which you direct your actions in your family, community, church, school, and nation. Living by these high standards is always a personal choice and something only you can fully measure. But by now, many other people should be seeing qualities in you that make it clear you are choosing

 

If this is the information given the Scout about Scout Spirit, how are attendance percentages set? When the book says the scout is the one who determines if he is living the Oath and Law, how can a Scoutmaster decline to sign off a scout on Scout Spirit because the Scoutmaster doesnt think the scout is ready?

 

I apologize to those who see this as pedantic, iconoclastic, arrogant book thumping, but I would like to see the responses

 

 

[DugNevius]

so a scout who does not attend campouts, summer camp, eagle project and most troop meetings shows no less scout spirit then those that attend nearly everything activly?

[evmori]

I love discussions about Scout Spirit.

 

Since Scout Spirit is living the Oath & Law in everyday life a Scout must be brutally honest about his self-evaluation of Scout Spirit. If he just figures I'll tell my Scoutmaster I have been living the Oath & Law in my everyday life even though I haven't, that's not Scout Spirit.

 

And everyday life means life in and out of Scouting. There are those who feel what a Scout does or doesn't do while with his unit has no bearing on Scout Spirit. Horse-puckey! And to answer Dug's question, if a Scout only shows up when he feels like it, he is displaying Scout Spirit.

 

BTW, thanks for the lead-in OGE.

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[ScoutNut]

Yup, you have it!

 

Unless, you can show where, in the Scout Oath & Law, it states that a Scout must attend "campouts, summer camp, eagle project and most troop meetings".

 

The best place to talk to the Scout about "Scout Spirit", & to find out how he feels he is doing in making the Oath & Law a part of his life, is at a SM conference. Getting to know the Scout, talking to him about his life, his scouting & his plans for both is part of what a SM conference is all about.

 

A Scout that does not attend "campouts, summer camp, eagle project and most troop meetings" has other problems. He is not getting what he should/could out of the program. These things can also be addressed at a SM conference by discovering the reasons behind his non-attendance & helping him work things out.

 

[scottteng]

"Demonstrate Scout spirit by living the Scout Oath (Promise) and Scout Law in your everyday life."

 

The requirement clearly states that the scout spirit you are to demonstrate is in your everyday life and not tied to scout function attendance. If we are experiencing poor attendance at scout functions maybe we need to adjust our program to better fit the needs of the scouts. When a young man is excited about doing something then try and keep him from doing it. This applies at all age levels a camping trip is exciting to a new scout but old hat to a 16 year old. It's like the old adage for salespeople find out what the customer wants then selling it to him is no problem.

I am a rifle range master when a group of boys come in and I am done with safety briefing I open it up to questions. There are usually a lot until I say I would love to sit here all day and answer questions its a lot easier than running the range but I thought you guys were here to shoot.

[John-in-KC]

"We got SPIRIT, yes we do! We got SPIRIT, HOW ABOUT YOU?" That, to me, is the thrust of Mr Nevius's comment: Is the Scout rah-rah to the program?

 

It's semantics, but important semantics. Scout Spirit is all about the Values Method and the Adult Assocaition Method of Scouting, imo. It's how these young men comport themselves when we don't have our eyes on them. It's about have we given them tools in the box to be the young men of America's Next Generation?

 

Mr Nevius, who says:

"so a scout who does not attend campouts, summer camp, eagle project and most troop meetings shows no less scout spirit then those that attend nearly everything activly?"

 

...to me, is discussing the Scouts activity in the PROGRAM of Scouting, which pertains to the Patrol and the Outdoor Methods.

 

To my way of thinking, if there is more than ZERO young men in a Troop with the issue Mr Nevius describes, then:

 

1) There need to be two SM conferences per Scout: One with the Scout himself, where the questions need to be open-ended, and the leader needs to listen to the Feedback (remember, Feedback is a Gift!!). There is a reason the Scout is not engaging, but it's not going to come to the surface on its own.

 

2) There also needs to be a cup of coffee shared between the SM and the Scouts parents. We aren't the be-all and end-all answer for all boys; if the interests lie elsewhere, and critically so, then all parties need to say "This isn't a fit" and move on in peace.

 

Now, if there are more than a few boys in the Troop for whom this is happening, then there needs to be some deeper checking. It's time for the COR to invite the UC in and see where the weak spot is in the adult leadership.

 

A Scoutmaster can see a lot if he takes the occasional time to see an assembly or a school evening where his young men are doing something. Eyes and ears open will yield a tremendous amount of input and feedback on his program.

[Beavah]

Yah, I've never figured what all the fuss and bother is about Scout Spirit, eh?

 

I think it comes from people who put too much emphasis on Advancement Method to the exclusion of the others.

 

We all know what good character is, eh? At least as defined by the CO we serve and the culture we've developed in our units.

 

We all should know that boys should not be recognized or given awards until they have demonstrated that they've made appropriate progress toward bein' a man of good character - progress which reflects their age, the rank they hope to be recognized for, and to some extent the place where they started from.

 

Developin' character takes time and effort. It doesn't happen on a schedule, nor does it happen just because a boy finished learnin' all his knots. In a lot of ways, buildin' character is the hardest of any of the requirements, and takes a bit longer.

 

But it's the one that matters the most.

 

So yeh should do what's right, and publicly honor with awards the boys that you feel deserve to be so honored for their growth in character. Da ones that yeh want to hold up to the community and to the younger scouts as examples. Simple. Because if you don't hew to that standard, the Advancement Method is meaningless, eh?

 

[GernBlansten]

Measuring Scout spirit?

I can measure it against my opinion of what it should be. The old "I'm thinking of a number" game. Johnny, you have earned 82 of a possible 100 spirit points.

 

I can measure it against what I see in his peers. You know, Johnny, in my opinion, shows great scout spirit. Tommy is about 52.5% of Johnny.

 

I can measure it on a bell curve where 75% of scouts show 50% of the spirit. Only those scouts within 2 standard deviations to the right of the median, have scout spirit. The rest need to work on it.

 

Or we can just chalk up scout spirit as an ideal to be reached, as defined by the scout and coached by the leadership.

[Eagledad]

>>Or we can just chalk up scout spirit as an ideal to be reached, as defined by the scout and coached by the leadership.

[BrentAllen]

Seeing as how the Patrol method is so important to Scouting (do I need to pull out the quotes from B-P?), someone please explain to me how a Scout who "does not attend campouts, summer camp, eagle project and most troop meetings" is living by the Oath. How is he helping the other members of his Patrol? How is he being trustworthy, loyal, helpful,.... to his Patrol mates? Hard for me to see how he is helping other people at all times when he isn't helping his Patrol at all. Certainly not my idea of Scout Spirit. Doesn't sound to me like that boy wants to be a Scout.

[DugNevius]

i agree with the last few posts. If scout spirit is to be "assumed" then why even bother mentioning it as a requirment? Scout spirit isnt JUST living the scout oath and law, its a respect for the scouting program and how/what it teaches.

 

Us scouters are their to guide the youth not judge them. If we are doing our jobs as SMs then this is a process of communication over several years and it should be new mystery to these scouts working on eagle about what to expect to be expected from them. If they are not showing scout spirit IN scouting, how can it be assumed they are doing so elsewhere? during these campouts and meetings and such is when we adults and their peers in the troop interact with them, more directly- in most cases- then anywhere else. By never being around it it makes it hard to make a case that the scout oath and law are being lived up to.

 

You cant get eagle through correspondence.

 

even so, a scout never around fails to meet the requirment of completing his leadership.

[DugNevius]

i agree with the last few posts. If scout spirit is to be "assumed" then why even bother mentioning it as a requirment? Scout spirit isnt JUST living the scout oath and law, its a respect for the scouting program and how/what it teaches.

 

Us scouters are their to guide the youth not judge them. If we are doing our jobs as SMs then this is a process of communication over several years and it should be new mystery to these scouts working on eagle about what to expect to be expected from them. If they are not showing scout spirit IN scouting, how can it be assumed they are doing so elsewhere? during these campouts and meetings and such is when we adults and their peers in the troop interact with them, more directly- in most cases- then anywhere else. By never being around it it makes it hard to make a case that the scout oath and law are being lived up to.

 

You cant get eagle through correspondence.

 

even so, a scout never around fails to meet the requirment of completing his leadership.

[evmori]

Brent ask some great questions.

 

Scout spirit shouldn't be assumed. It is a requirement just like all the other requirements. The main difference is it is very individual & hard to judge. But it is possibly the most important requirement.

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[OldGreyEagle]

so a scout who does not attend campouts, summer camp, eagle project and most troop meetings shows no less scout spirit then those that attend nearly everything activly?

 

If you read my original post you will note I did not define what I thought was Scout Spirit, I only quoted what the Boy Scout Handbook says about Scout Spirit. If we want to debate whether or not the Handbook is wrong, I suppose we could do that, we have examined its weaknesses on other threads.

 

To reach First Class a scout must participate in 10 separate troop/patrol activities, 3 of which have to include camping overnight so the scout has to have attended campouts. He has to be able to tie his knots and demonstrate them he has to be able to complete the BSA Swimmer test. I dont recall anything that said he didnt have to meet the specified requirements. For Star, Life and Eagle there are the Positions of Responsibility. If the scout does not adequately perform in those roles, then they are removed from them and do not receive credit for the Position. A post stated You cant get eagle through correspondence. . In the Program followed by the Troop I serve, the Camping meritbadge is required to earn the rank of Eagle, One of the requirements is to Camp a total of at least 20 days and nights. Using a week of long-term camp toward this requirement. Sleep each night under the sky or in a tent you have pitched (long-term camp excluded). So I dont think the correspondence method of earning Eagle will be in vogue any time soon.

 

I have an idea, rather than try to explain why a Troop should be able to set percentage attendance requirements, and other self generated methods of scout spirit measurements, lets try this, A scout comes to you with the quotes I initially posted, he wants to know why the book says one thing about Scout Spirit and the Troop does something completely different. What do you tell him?

 

[Venividi]

OGE,

I will rise to the bait. Some possible responses are embedded in the quotes that you included your initial post:

 

Tenderfoot requirement #13 p60 - all of it. Then provide him with some specific examples.

 

Second Class and first class requirement refer to: "Set high standards for yourself." Help him define those high standards,and provide encouragement and incentive to reach them.

 

Star Life Eagle: "Be Prepared ...to get along with others ..." and "By now, many other people should be seeing qualities in you ..." Then discuss what you and others you have talked to have been observing.

 

Like many other things, one can find justification to be so lax with scout spirit that it becomes meaningless, or so overly strict that it becomes impossible. However, neither of these positions are very effective in incenting a scout to grow into a man. I gotta agree with Beavah, BrentAllen, and Eagledad on this. But then you probably already knew that. I will add that if you find your method of asking the scout to define his own level of scout spirit works for your scouts, then keep doing it.

 

Venividi