Eagle: Overzealous Parents / Scout without spirit

[ynotcamp]

How do you deal with situations such as the following?

1) Overzealous parent wants her 13 year old son to "hurry up" and get every thing done to earn his Eagle so he will be "done" with scouting?

2) A scout who has come right out and said that his heart is not in scouting, he is only doing it because his parents want him to reach Eagle. He has supposedly changed his mind recently and does want the Eagle award himself, but has failed to show "scout spirit" in any form.

[ScoutNut]

1) If the Troop is run correctly, it will be the boy who does his own work at his own pace. Maybe, by the time he earns his Eagle (whenever that is) he will have decided that there is something to stay in the program for. Meanwhile the SM could have a nice conference with the parents.

 

 

2) He may say his heart is not in scouting & he is only doing it for his parents, but he's there & learning so I would not knock it. You say he has "supposedly" changed his mind & is now enthusiastic about earning Eagle. That's GREAT! Take it at face value & stop with the negative attitude. "Scout Spirit" is defined by the BSA as living the Scout Oath & Law in your everyday life (not eagerly/actively striving for Eagle). BSA also states that how well the Scout does this is something only the Scout can judge for himself. Given this, how can you possibly say he "has failed to show "scout spirit" in any form". You are not him & do not know.

 

 

In both scenarios the boy has the support of his parents. Even if that support is excessive, it is definitely more than some boys have. According to BSA surveys, boys who have supportive parents, stay in the program longer. As long as the boy is in the program there is the chance he is getting something out of it, & that is a good thing.

[evmori]

In both cases, the boy is there & is probably learning. If he has no Scout Spirit, he doesn't advance. But remember, Scout Spirit is not just when he is at Scouts.

 

A talk with mom & dad in both cases is needed. They need to understand that the advancement is their son's not theirs.

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[Chippewa29]

About six years ago, right about the time I became SM, I had 17 year Life Scout in my troop that was the youngest of three brothers (both had gotten their Eagles in the troop). Our troop at the time consisted of him, a fifteen year old Life Scout, and six Scouts that had crossed over the year before. He seemed very disinterested to say the least. Nice kid who didn't cause any problems, but he wasn't really contributing anything either. I suspected he was sticking around to please his parents.

 

One day, he and I sat down and had a real conversation and were totally open and honest with each other. He admitted to me that he didn't really want to be there and he only kept going because his parents were pressuring him to get his Eagle like his brothers and dad. We talked for about an hour and I asked him a lot of serious questions about what he wanted. I also told him that although its nice to complete your Eagle for your parents or whatever, ultimately it had to be for him. Toward the end, I told him to think about it for the next two weeks and if he decided that he really didn't want to continue in Scouts, I would talk to his parents and get them off his back.

 

Two weeks later, he took me aside and said that he talked to his parents and explained the situation. Apparently, that was a big breakthrough for them. This kid came back to me and said that he had really thought about it and decided that he really wanted to get his Eagle for himself. For the next 7-8 months before he got his Eagle (and turned 18), his attitude was much different and he projected a very positive image for the younger Scouts. After his Eagle COH, he said he was so glad he finished it instead of dropping out. He said he enjoyed his last year in Scouts more than any other. It was in big part because he decided it was something he really wanted to do instead of what his parents wanted.

 

If a parent is really pressuring the kid to get the Eagle, then talk to the kid and the parent. I've always believed the Eagle isn't about the requirements you complete, but the experiences you have and the person you become in the process. If this parent just wants their kid to get the Eagle to put on his college apps, then they don't get it.

[epalmer84]

Anyone else have one of these:

 

* The Scout can't get a driver's license until they make Eagle.

 

* When they make Eagle, the parents will buy him a new car.

 

Ed

[BrentAllen]

ynot,

For parents #1, sit down with the parents and explain the Aims & Methods of Scouting. Let the parents know the purpose of Scouting is not to just reach Eagle - it is to train boys to be leaders and good citizens. Their son shouldn't feel he is "done" with Scouting when he earns Eagle - he would then be in position to be a good leader and mentor for the younger Scouts in the troop.

 

As for #2, showing Scout Spirit is very subjective - hard to give you an answer. No Scout Spirit at all? He doesn't attend meetings or go on campouts? Doesn't wear his uniform? Need more info.

[Eagledad]

>>He has supposedly changed his mind recently and does want the Eagle award himself, but has failed to show "scout spirit" in any form.

[packsaddle]

Ed (Palmer), I had the second one. His father was very open about his intention to 'spoil' his kids because he had been so deprived during his poor childhood. He says he has plenty of money now so he'll get vicarious pleasure from giving his everything they want.

 

This took a 180-degree turn, however, when the results started to show in high school. The father now has a new and better perspective and, fortunately, the kids still have a chance at a future, just not as pampered as before.

 

Ynot, I would add to Brent's #1 answer that the parents need to understand that the boy is the one who must earn rank. Sometimes pushy parents just make the boy push back (this might contribute to the #2 problem as well)...the best approach is to make the boy aware that he is the master of his fate. Either success or failure is his alone to earn, whichever way it goes. People can help and encourage, but the rewards are his if he is willing to do the work.

I have said something like this before - failure is a powerful teacher and can sometimes provide a stronger lesson than success. The boy who fails to earn Eagle and who later regrets it knows what that failure feels like and also has a chance at understanding that he is the one who can make the difference in the future.

[OldGreyEagle]

The question of Scout Spirit rears its' ugly head again. And since this deserves a separate thread, it shall have one.

[DugNevius]

when a scout is ready to start serious work towards eagle (after the rank of Life) its a good idea to have a sit down with him and his parents to go over the expectations of the next 6 months or more, that way there can be little to no confusion about what they should and should not be doing.

 

I have found this to be important becaue there have been occasions where parents will take too agressive a role in the eagle project.

[GernBlansten]

EPalmer,

I've heard the Eagle before Driver's License game several times in my troop. Seems to be the only thing to get these boys to work on their Eagle. I'm not sure its right, but it does work. In every case, we never saw those boys after they got their Eagle.

 

I also know a father who bribed his son with a car (not new). His family also had a rule that he couldn't have a car until he was 18. Needless to say, the scout got his Eagle 2 weeks before turning 18. How do I know this? I sold him the car

[C-BOLT]

I've heard the driver license thing before, it wasnt used on me but people in the troop.

 

And as for the new car, I asked just for kicks, but unfortunately it didn't work.

[Fuzzy Bear]

Let me understand, the Eagle, in and of itself is not enough? Get your license and/or a car to reward one for making Eagle?

This is something of a mystery. I am supposing that this defines the Eagle as making a person competitive in today's marketplace.

 

Hurring up to get done with Scouting by getting the Eagle. New Eagle's may now be defined as the first step toward a better resume and top jobs in industry. This may well be a way to push parents into pushing their sons and yet another way to recruit. I can see banners with the logo, "Become a Scout, earn your Eagle. Today's Patrol Leader is tomorrow's CEO." Headlines, such as, "Former Scout makes millions simply by using the knowledge learned from the Physical Fitness MB." or "Many thought this kid would go nowhere but he drove his brand new car while wearing his Eagle lapel pin to glory. He wheeled into a dealership and took over the place. He had learned these skills as the SPL of his local Scout unit." or "He was just a kid with a penchant for the mechanical MB's and now he owns several Gas Stations. He modestly said that he owed it all to Scouting and becoming an Eagle Scout." or "Eagle Scout lands on the Moon! Some still think it was staged but he swears that he put his foot right there in it."

fb

 

(This message has been edited by Fuzzy Bear)

[kb6jra]

I've had both of these same scenarios in my troop recently.

 

Regarding Scenario #1, we had 3 14yo boys in my troop earn Eagle together, or should I say we had the mothers of 3 14yo boys Earn Eagle one year. The boys did learn and two of the three did contribute (the one that didn't was the son of the CC, she did all the contributing, and she was the biggest pusher for "finishing" scouting). When the 3 received thier Awards at the ECoH, 2 dropped out immediately, and 1 stayed active for another 1 1/2 years.

 

We decided as a group at that time we would discourage any boys from becoming Eagle prior to thier 16th birthday. After what seemed to be a waste of our time and efforts with the two boys that bailed on the troop after receiving thier Eagle, the parents were very disturbed, not to mention the younger scouts. "Why didn't they stick around to help" is still the question I get from my senior scouts. A hard one to answer to be sure. We haven't had that issue since then because we explain to the parents on thier initial visit exactly what you've got going on in this thread and make them understand that they are needed to support and nudge, not pull or shove kicking and screaming.

 

Scenario #2 comes up more often, and I've decided it's my problem, not the parents. Parent's want what's best for thier sons, we all do. I have to make my son go to meetings occasionally, it's just the teenage years creaping in, and it tells me there's something missing for them, the older boys. Younger kids don't usually have this issue, but when they do I make sure to sit down with them and a parent and explain that it's not ok to make the troop or it's meetings a place where a war of wills are to take place. This seems to get people thinking in the right direction.

[C-BOLT]

On the topic of Eagle and how it will help you in life, I just got rejected from a college. Not the end of the world, as a scout is always prepared etc.

 

Oh well, from a scouting POV, I probably would have broken quite a few of the scout laws had I ended up going to said school. =]