Getting Scouts to think for themselves.

[CNYScouter]

 

I know the Ship is still fairly new but trying to get the Ship members to actually plan out an event is one area that we still need to work on.

And from mnay of the Troops I am seeing and hearing about it is a pretty common problem.

 

All of the Sea Scouts are involved with other activities; some are even in Venturing Crews.

They seem to bounce around to the different activities, but arent around to plan them.

They show up once in awhile to find out what is going on but getting them to sit down and plan an activity just isnt happening.

 

Eamonn talks about cafeteria Scouting.

I dont know if that is what I am seeing but it seems that the Ship members are happy to attend events but just dont seem interested in planning or even selecting what they want to do.

We have even scheduled time to do this but most of the Ship members had canceled by the day it was scheduled.

 

One big frustration I have found is after visiting some of the other Venturing Crews that the Ship members are in, none are really youth lead.

The adults stand up front and announce when the next activity is and wait for the kids to tell them they are going.

 

I am finding it hard to know where draw the line to stop planning activities and the Ship falling apart due to the lack of things going on or keep organizing the activities hoping I can get the Ship members someday to start doing this on there own.

 

[Eamonn]

Strange!!

I was talking to Noel Guzman about this very thing last week. We had met at the Liberty Flotilla Quarterdeck Training Day in New Jersey.

Kinda funny how things worked out!!

At the training (Much of it was the stuff I e-mailed to you!!) The presenter was going over the Petty Officer positions and explaining what they did.

No real big problem with the "Big" positions. Just about everyone knew what the Boatswain and the other officers did. But when we got to Crew Leaders? The light just didn't go on.

There were about 10 may 12 Ship's in attendance from five or six states. A quick inventory showed that most of the Ships were small with only 8 -12 members.

Ships filled all the big roles:

Boatswain, Boatswain's Mates, Purser,Yeoman, Storekeeper. But didn't have enough members to really fill or use Crews!!

For our non-sea Scouters -Imagine a Troop with all the POR's filled but with no Patrol Leaders and no Patrols!!

Noel and I came up with the idea of giving everyone in the Ship something to do!!

I thought I'd test it to see how it worked.

We had a hoagie sale coming up.

The Quarterdeck had said that they wanted one. I had got the permit from the town hall. They had talked about either making the hoagies or just buying them and selling them. Which they did.

So before the next QD-Meeting I got the Boatswain and asked him to ask someone to be in charge of the sale.

To be honest there wasn't a lot to do.

Our Storekeeper volunteered to be in charge. He asked the Yeoman to make signs. The purser ordered the hoagies. As a group they decided how the money would be spent.

The Storekeeper got a count of how many Scouts would be out selling.

The sale went well.

I praised the heck out of all of them!!

Right now, our newest recruit is organizing a weekend kayaking trip, someone is making recruitment flyer's, someone else is working on cosmic bowling, someone else is working on rock climbing! I got stuck with the NE-Region BOH and Ball and the service project.

The ideas have to come from them.

You have to be willing to coax someone into being in charge (even if there isn't a lot to do. They still get used to the idea that they are in charge.) Be willing to accept that things might not go well. Or might need to be changed -Remember the Halloween Dance we had in February!!) Follow up and follow up and follow up some more!! Ask what is happening? Find out why it's not happening!! Talk to the Boatswain.

Offer suggestions.

Last week something wasn't happening. I asked the Boatswain why? He said he didn't know someone wasn't answering his e-mails. I asked if he had tried phoning? His reply was "Gee I never thought of that!"

When things don't go as you might like? Whatever happens don't beat yourself up about it.

It is their Ship. They own it (Well kinda!!) Every now and then something not going as it should can be a good lesson.

Ea.

[Eagledad]

Two things:

 

How good where these scouts at planning before they joined the Ship. Is that a correct phrase?

 

I found that older who hadn't been around planning much have a very hard time with it. If that if the case, then assume they need to learn the skill first. So chop up the planning in smaller bites. Teach them the over all plan (menu) and repeat it all the time so that they learn the big picture. But let them do the plan in smaller bites. Maybe assign each person a small part or take on only a couple parts. That will allow you to fill in blanks and keep momentum going. Do you have a simple formula to do a plan that you can repeat at the top of your head?

 

Second, have you tried bribery? Tell them you are providing pizza and pop at the next planning meeting. That sure works for me. You can even go as far as doing a movie, but the planning has to be completed by a certain time to make the movie.

 

I am not assuming this is a fix all, just trying add a few ideas.

 

BArry

[frank10]

Don't call them planning meetings. We just do some "paper work" at our staff only boat trips.

[Eamonn]

"How good where these scouts at planning before they joined the Ship"?

Planning is part of leadership.

In the Ship we have several Scouts who not only attended the old JLTC,they served on staff. We have a couple of Eagle Scouts.

I would have thought that with all of this these Lads would have picked up something?

Strange thing is the girls who have no type of Scouting background are far beater at planning.

Part of the "Blame?" lies in the fact that many come from Troops where the POR's are filled with PW's (Patch Wearers)

Looking at OJ's Troop.

The fund raising events are completely in the hands of the adults.

Summer Camp is the Council Camp, same site, same week each and every year. Plus the summer trip (Washington DC, Gettysburg and the Air Force Base in Ohio? On a rotation. -All planned and led by adults)Summer camp and this weekend trip is the summer program. For June till School goes back in September. They have some land that someone lets them use so camping there and District Camporees fills out the rest of the year.

The Scouts never get the opportunity to plan anything.

While about 75% do attend summer camp, the Scouts aged 14+ don't think or find the weekend campouts to be very interesting so they don't go!! I can drive to the summer camp in less than 25 minutes. Not much planning needed for that one.

Our female Ship's Mate works for Home Depot. They donate a lot of building materials for Eagle Scout Leadership projects. She is real big on only talking with the Scout and telling the parents to go take a walk!! She informs me that nearly all the projects seem to not belong to the Scout and when Dad isn't there with his list and his ideas the Scouts have little or no idea what is going on.

Dave,

part of the problem is that the unit is so new. Everything the Scouts do is new, they can't fall back on how it was done last time or tradition.

For many of them this new Sea Scouting thing is just something they kinda think is a good idea and might be worth trying!! In fact just another activity to add to the list of all the other activities they do.

Over time this will change.

Already I see that we are starting to attract younger members, in fact we have a few 13 year olds waiting to join. My hope is that these younger youth will get so involved that over time they will plan other activities around what the Ship is doing.

The Lad planning the Kayaking weekend is only 14. Him and his parents can't get over how much more the Ship does and how much more we offer than the Troop he is in does. The kids waiting to join are his pals.

We have one Lad who has applied to attend SEAL. Sadly he turns 18 this year and he is very involved in Venturing - He has also turned an application in to be the NE-Region Venturing President, if he gets that he may well run for National Venturing President. We would have had two more but they are going back to Georgia to work on the Sea Kayaking program we did last summer and the dates just don't work out. One will be a senior next year (Sarah my knot girl and TJ, my head banger. - Who you met at the Training weekend)TJ, will only be a junior.

I was SM of the Troop in London for over 11 years. It took several years for me to work out what "Youth Led" really meant. It took another couple of years to set up a system that worked. There were years when it worked just great and years when I was pulling my hair out.

This sort of thing isn't easy with an established unit, where the members have had the chance to see how things work, how you work!! It's ten times more difficult with a new unit, worse still with a program that we are still feeling our way around.

Don't give up the Ship.

One new Scout is going to join and he or she will change everything!! He or She will have pals who will have you asking yourself "What was I worried about?" And telling yourself "Man this is just great" -Maybe not tomorrow or next week, but it will happen. I promise.

Ea.

[scoutldr]

"She informs me that nearly all the projects seem to not belong to the Scout and when Dad isn't there with his list and his ideas the Scouts have little or no idea what is going on."

 

Sadly, this is the trend I am seeing as well. A co-worker's son recently received (I won't say "earned") the Eagle. I spent 6 months listening to her trials and tribulations as SHE dealt with all the details of getting the project completed. I would gently try to ask, "so, tell me again why YOU are doing this?", to which I just got, "well he is so busy with sports and school, SOMEONE has to make all these calls for him!" Now she is so proud of HIS accomplishment, and I just have to roll my eyes.

[Eagledad]

>>Part of the "Blame?" lies in the fact that many come from Troops where the POR's are filled with PW's (Patch Wearers)

[CNYScouter]

One thing the Ship has yet to draw is the bored older Scout.

My son is the only Sea Scout that was in Dirt Scouts and in the 3 years he was in a Troop he had no opportunities to learn how to plan, heck I dont he was ever asked if he had any ideas for activities or trips.

 

Knowing that the youth didnt have planning skills this has been an area where I have spent a lot of time trying to teach the Scouts.

They dont seem to have problem deciding on something to do, but as Eamonn has stated it hard to plan something when you never know who it going to show up for the next meetings and it basically stalls if any of them actually have to go and figure any details, including when to go.

 

It just seems that the kids are content to sit back and wait for someone else to step forward to plan something.

If the Ship isnt doing someting they will just jump to another program that is offering a planned activity for them. (This has pretty much been happening all winter).

I dont blame the Sea Scouts but this is the way every other activity is run, including the other Venturing Crews they are in.

 

I have not given up just yet but I am still looking for ideas.

We have cleared the first hurdle and have enough Scouts and adults to recharter and we were even given a small donation to keep moving forward until we can get a fundraiser going.

 

Its hard to recruit kids into a fun and exciting program when I cant seem to get the ones in it interested in planning fun and exciting activities.

Also rechartering in March makes it a hard sell for youth program, primarily into sailing, when there is 3 feet of snow on the ground.

 

The whole Patch Wearers instead of PORs one of the big reasons I became discouraged with the Boy Scout program.

The adults in both Troops were with,gave Scouts free passes with PORs using the excuse that they were busy with other activities to be active in the Troop.

Same can be said with planning activities, they didn't want totie up the Scouts time in having to plan everything so it was done for them.

 

I think this bypasses the whole purpose of Scouts of teaching youth to make ethical choices.

I think making a Scout decide between Rank Advancement and doing the other activity is a perfect example of what we are trying to do.

Maybe I am "old school" bt to me if a Scout cant devote 4 or 6 months to working in a POR with the Troop he dosen't deserve his next rank. He can parisipate all he wants but he needs to put some effort in a POR if he wants to advance.

 

I think a lot has to do with parents wanting it all for their kids but needing to cut corners to get it for them.

 

In the Ship, advancement is a whole other issue.

We do have a couple of Sea Scouts close to making Apprentice Rank this spring or early summer.

I am hoping this will spark interest into the advancment Program.

But then again the Ship members need to be willing to spend 16 hours working on projects outside ship meetings to make rank.

 

 

[gwd-scouter]

Getting the Scouts to think for themselves has been an ongoing process in our troop for the past two years. Before that, PORs were treated mostly as "honorary" with the adults leading the show.

 

It came as a great surprise to the boys and adults when I stepped up as SM and insisted that we would start working toward the real meaning of boy-led and that PORs were no longer going to be "you've done your six months with a 'title' now we'll sign you off."

 

At that time, our troop was mostly older guys - Life to Eagle - that had never really had any responsibility in the troop, a few 1st class to Star Scouts that seemed to be just hanging in there, and a few Scouts under 1st class.

 

Two years has passed and we've lost a good amount of scouts and leaders because of this transition. Some immediately moved to other Troops. Some quit outright. We lost all of the former adult leaders for a while, but a few have now come back to help us with Boards of Review and merit badges. Seems they like the way things are headed in our troop and want to help where they can.

 

I've mentioned in other posts about those few "legacy" Scouts that over the past two years hung in there in order to "make" Eagle. Well, the didn't "make" Eagle. Those that hung in there somehow found it in themselves to help their Troop, go on outings, show leadership to the younger Scouts, and EARNED their Eagle.

 

Now, even though we are a very small troop, those 1st class to Star Scouts from a couple of years ago are our most outstanding role models and leaders. The new guys we've recruited are learning to depend on their Senior Scouts.

 

I think the hardest part for the Scouts was understanding that I really meant what I said. It is their program. It is their Troop. It's been two years since I stepped up as SM and the light bulbs in their heads are almost fully lit. We are finishing the second year of their year-long plan. We have, so far, done everything they "planned" back in September. The reason I put that word in quotes is because they still are far way from doing all the planning themselves. First step was to get them to come up with ideas of what they wanted to do. Second step was to be sure we, as adults, followed that plan.

 

Our Troop is now having monthly PCLs to come up with meeting plans leading up to the monthly activity/campout - something that was never done before. Admittedly, these still need some input from me, but it has been less and less as the months go by.

 

Difficult as it may have been, I have found that if we continue to raise the bar of expectation for our Scouts, they will live up to the challenge. We just have to train them, mentor them, and then get out of the way and let them do their jobs.

 

 

[pargolf44067]

Okay, I think this belongs in this thread, if not, I apologize in advance. Last night, I was very frustrated with our PLC. We had our meeting last night before the troop meeting and nobody was prepared. Our SPL, normally a really good kid, came in to the meeting and looked as though he could care less about being there. I, as usual, had some ideas to have for discussion regarding the theme for the month. The boys really don't seem to have good ideas to come up with for the weekly meetings.

 

I told them next week I was bringing the program helps for our theme (which they picked at the beginning of the year) and that they really needed to look at the program and try and come up with some good ideas for meetings. As you might know, until I became SM 18 months ago, there was no PLC, so we are still in learning mode. I also realize that I need to make sure the boys get more training in their positions.

 

Sorry for venting, but last night was one of the most frustrating of my tenure.

 

Thanks for listening!

 

Bill

[CNYScouter]

pargolf44067

 

I know what you mean about not being prepared.

When I find out about an activity I think the Ship might be interested in attending I get info about it out to the members.

No one, not even the adult bother to read it and are not sure about going.

The Boatswain or I send the whole time telling about the activity but people still can't make up there mind about attending so a decision gets put off.

 

I just came tonight form a SHip meeting where I tried to get Sip members to take on a task.

I couldn't anyone to commit to taking on a task, not because they didn't want to but they had no idea if they could make the activity.

 

Over a month ago one of the Sea Scouts suggested we take a look at a sailing charter in the Bahamas that her brother's Troop did a few years ago for a long-cruise in 2008

Everyone wants to go but no one will commit to a date that far in advance so we can figure the costs and make reservations to hold the date.

 

They did decide on a fundraiser,

It's back to the can and bottle drive.

They just haven't decided where and when.