My disappointing evening

[nldscout]

Let me begin by telling you that amongst my many jobs I am the Judge in our Town Court.

 

This evening I was called by the NY State Police to do an arraignment on 2 young men on 23 counts of Criminal Mischief. Imagine to my surprise a great disappointment when they brought these 2 young men into the court room and one of them turns out to be a past member of my troop who made Eagle scout about 4 yrs ago.

 

To say I was disappointed is an understatement. Just what one wants to do on a Sunday evening, put one of my Eagle scouts in Jail.

 

 

[C-BOLT]

That is terrible news. I'm sure they were great people too.

[SR751Fox]

23 counts. . . I would guess that they (allegedly) did enough damage to warrant felony charges.

 

I remember being in a job interview about a month after I graduated high school. I was already enrolled in college and trying to get my foot in the door in my chosen career. The owner of the business asked me "Are you honest?" I replied to him "I'm an Eagle Scout, sir." He then said "I don't give a . Are you honest?"

 

At the time, I was in slight shock that he would question my statement. My answer to his question should have been translated: "yes. . .I'm trustworthy, loyal, helpful, etc." But he evidently had some experience, or clear memory of Charles Whitman, and thought it prudent to qualify my answer.

 

Since then, I've served on Board of Reviews for boys whom I felt did not belong in Scouts, much less with a red, white & blue medal. One Scout, in particular, was passed off on Eagle despite some concerns (the award was not my call) and he broke into several pool lockers at summer camp just weeks later, stealing several wallets and other personal belongings. My troop committee's position was to send his award in the mail, with no court of honor or further contact. The troop, meanwhile, attended camp in another council for several years because of the black eye this young man gave us.

 

Another Eagle in our troop came back a couple years later and told our SM that he was an atheist -- always had been.

 

Perhaps your criminal mischief suspect just had a bad night. But I have to wonder if someone had some doubts at his Board of Review a few years ago.

 

 

[packsaddle]

nldscout, The award is a personal achievement and as such it represents things quite different to each recipient and to people who merely consider it. The responsibility for crimincal actions belongs to the young man alone and does not diminish the achievement of another young man who happens to have the same medal. The public appearance (that seems to be part of what bothers you) is, in this sense, unimportant unless we intend to use the rank of Eagle for some kind of public relations goal. But the young man who earns it most likely does not earn it to achieve a public relations goal. He earns it for whatever personal meaning it has for him and that, as you note, is variable.

 

SR751Fox, I think most of us would recognize the question by that man as rather nonsensical. Who on earth would answer 'no' to it? Your best response would have been simply, 'yes'. Your achievement means a lot to you. But you must remember that YOU are the only one who can truly understand that meaning. Others often have quite different views. But I guess experience has been a good teacher this time.

As for the scout who later admitted he was an atheist, no one can know for sure whether or not he really was an atheist at the time, or whether he's just pulling your collective chains now. Ignore it. I do, however, note that being an atheist is not comparable to being a criminal. Just a thought.

[hops_scout]

Fox, I'm pretty active in Scouts and I would have asked the same question. That's because I have experiences with Scouts that weren't so honest.

[packsaddle]

Hops, The honest person would answer 'yes'.

The dishonest person would answer 'yes'.

The person who answered 'no' would be an idiot. But I guess I would reject him on those grounds as well.

[GernBlansten]

An honest person answering "yes" would be honest.

An honest person answering "no" would be dishonest.

A dishonest person answering "yes" would be dishonest.

A dishonest person answering "no" would be honest.

 

Rather useless question. Honest.

[yellow_hammer]

SR751Fox,

 

Your interviewer sounds like like a real jerk - not because of his opinion on scouts but because he would talk like that in an interview. I would suspect that his attitude has less to do with the example of some eagles and more to do with resentment of an accomplishment that he didn't have. I hope you didn't get THAT job.

 

FWIW, I've met several people who got jobs because they were eagles. Depends on who you are inteviewing with and what their values are.

[hops_scout]

I'll agree- it isn't a very smart question.But the response of "I'm an Eagle Scout" woulnd't be a satifactory answer for me. I've seen some Eagle Scouts that weren't Scoutlike. Don't get me wrong, being an Eagle Scout is a great thing as long as you live up to it. But just because you are an Eagle Scout does not mean you are better than someon else who may share similar values but isn't an Eagle Scout.

[nldscout]

What these young gentleman did was have a beer too many, both are under 21. Then got in truck went for a ride, had a "BRILLIANT" idea to whack rural mailboxes with a baseball bat. The total number of Mailboxes damaged/destroyed was about 40. Some people just let it go, 23 didn't, hence 23 seperate charges. Each one punishable by a year in jail.

 

What bothers me I guess is I was SM when he Made Eagle.

[SR751Fox]

You all make very good points.

 

As it goes, that guy was a jerk (for many reasons above and beyond that question). But I got the job and built my resume` there, before moving into a larger and more lucrative situation -- thanks to him. Additionally, since being hired by this "jerk," he became a believer of the Scouting movement and donated a lot of his time and money to our cause. Knowing him now as a friend, I know that he still asks that question. Truth is, his answer would likely be the same if someone responded "I'm an Eagle Scout sir."

 

A useless question? Well, it depends on how beyond-the-surface one looks when evaluating. But myself, I think not.

 

 

[John-in-KC]

Respect, responsibility, caretaking.

 

You were their SM, not their parents. You were a helper in their molding.

 

With luck, they'll plead, and then you can get really creative on their sentence. Replacing all the boxes comes to mind, followed by lots of community service hours.

 

A good lecture on Helpful and Friendly might not be out of order either.

[Lisabob]

Sorry to hear it nldscout. I imagine that young man was even more upset to see YOU than you were to see him. Unfortunately being an Eagle doesn't always make one immune from dumb lapses in judgment that tend to go with being young (not that this justifies their behavior, mind you).

[nldscout]

I think it kind of took him by surprise when I walked in. And he never really looked me in the eye. So maybe, just maybe he knows he screwed up. I know he knows I am disappointed, cause I told him in no uncertain terms.

 

In the end I will not hear the rest of the case, which may be good. A neutral judge will finish the case

[Eamonn]

"The award is a personal achievement and as such it represents things quite different to each recipient"

I couldn't agree more.

Of course when a Lad you know and have worked with is caught doing something really stupid, it really hurts -Especially if when you worked with him he didn't seem like a bad Lad or dumb kid.

 

When OJ was in second grade he had Sister Lucille.

I hate to be the one who talks ill of a nun, but she was real pain.

Everyday she would phone to inform me of the sins that OJ had committed. Never anything big, but always something. Her Who Must Be Obeyed, not being a Roman Catholic was happy to leave me with the nun. The calls lasted from 20 to 45 minutes.

I was starting to think that my kid was going to turn out to be the next axe murderer!

The calls were always at supper time when I was busy in the restaurant and after a few months got really old and I started to get upset.

In the end I went to the school and asked for a meeting with her and the principal.

At the meeting she came on saying that while nothing was really bad, she expected better from a good catholic boy!! I tried to explain that he was just a little kid -But was making no headway.

The Principal, who I never really liked (He smiled too much and was way too happy for my liking!) Tried to explain to me that they both thought of OJ as a child of God!

I shut them both up when I explain that was the problem. I didn't see him as a child of God, more as a little Devil!!

I know some Eagle Scouts who are the nicest people I have ever met or had the privilege of knowing, but I can't help thinking that maybe they would still be nice even if they had never been a Scout.

I sometimes think we as an organization make to big a deal about some things.

Just because a kid wears a Scout uniform does not transform him into some kind of little Angel.

Eagle Scouts do at times mess up!

Send a idiot to training yes even Wood Badge and you have a trained idiot- Or one with beads!

Not sure why? When I read about the Mail Boxes, Cool Hand Luke came to mind.

Back when I was a Scouter in London for a while I seemed to spend a lot of time in the West London Juvenile Court as a character witness /spokesperson for some of the Scouts in the Troop.

The sad thing was at times they were in trouble for doing stuff I remember doing when I was their age, but they just seemed to get caught!

Of course I never told them that!

Ea.