perceptions and misperceptions about smaller troops

[Lisabob]

Ron asks for selling points for smaller troops. We might as well also consider how to counter perceived weaknesses of smaller troops (which often discourage people from even looking at them, in my experience).

 

Selling points:

1. Smaller troop = more personal attention for each scout. Boys who get "lost" in a large troop are more likely to drop out of scouts all together. This is especially true of boys who maybe aren't as socially or emotionally mature when they first join boy scouting. I've seen boys who loved Cub Scouts suddenly flounder in Boy Scouts in a larger troop for exactly this reason and in most cases, we lose these boys forever.

 

2. Smaller troop = more flexibility. Organizing events for 30-90 scouts (plus parents/leaders) is a huge undertaking and limits the types of activities the group can engage in, as well as where they can go due to sheer size.

 

3. Smaller troop CAN = more boy-led. It is easier to lead a small group than a large group. Logistical problems are fewer. Temptations for adults to step in may therefore be fewer as well. This is not a given, but it could be easier than in a large troop.

 

Not to mention, it is easier for every boy's voice to be heard when there are only 8-15 voices in total, versus 30-90 voices.

 

Now on to common concerns about joining a smaller troop:

 

1. Smaller troop = more parental commitment than larger troop.

I think this may be one of the bigger myths out there. In our larger troop, I've noticed that parents who don't get involved tend to see their boy drop out fairly quickly. So yes, that's less commitment if you consider quitting as the lowest possible level of commitment! Beyond that, there's always work to be done in any size troop and it will find you. In some ways I think being an involved parent in a smaller troop could be less work - fewer personalities to juggle, fewer people to coordinate with, etc..

 

2. Smaller troop = less organized

As a somewhat burned out cub leader who effectively organized just about everything in the pack for a couple of years, I remember thinking this. I remember being thrilled that the larger troop my son wanted to join seemed so well organized. Spoiler alert: it isn't that well organized! Just because there may be a lot of people in formal leadership positions doesn't necessarily translate into organization and it can actually be more frustrating to try and help such a large group become better organized - more inertia if you will. Of course some small troops are also not well organized. On the other hand though, sometimes they can afford to be a bit looser because there isn't as much to keep track of!

 

4. Smaller troop = weak leaders

My experience tends to suggest the opposite. In a large group, a weak or mediocre leader can be propped up indefinitely by his or her supporting cast. Not so in a small troop.

 

5. Bigger troop = more "glitzy" program, smaller troop = more mundane program.

Maybe. OTOH, it might be easier for a small troop to pull off a really ambitious event or trip due to size. And besides, glitz isn't what everybody is looking for.

 

 

As for recruiting new scouts, smaller troops really have to work hard at this. In my experience, larger troops can sit back and do virtually nothing and still, new scouts will join. As gwd suggests elsewhere, it is almost unfair sometimes! But for a small troop just beginning to work on recruiting in a serious way like what Ron suggested in the other thread, I'd advocate taking a long term view (3-5 years). Start working now with wolf and bear den leaders to build that relationship. Focusing on the current Webelos II boys is probably going to be a case of "too little, too late" at this point, though it can't hurt to put the word out about your troop to them as well.

 

 

[Scoutmaster Ron]

Wow what great advice, here I was thinking the troop only had about a year left now I'm thinking of a 3-5 year recruiting plan

[OneHour]

Lisabob, with all due respects, but I will have to disagree with your perception:

"As for recruiting new scouts, smaller troops really have to work hard at this. In my experience, larger troops can sit back and do virtually nothing and still, new scouts will join. As gwd suggests elsewhere, it is almost unfair sometimes!"

 

We were a small troop 20-25 boys. We recruited as everyone else for the past 4 years. We grew to 70 boys strong, still we recruit. We invite webelos to join us on campouts. We assist packs (not one but many) with their pinewood derby, B&G, campouts, etc. I and other ASMs work closely with the packs; however, when the boys come to visit, I sell Boy Scout (not just our troop)and let them know of other troops around.

 

There are 2 other troops within the 5 miles radius. They stayed small. They make hardly any effort to recruit. Our program became our selling point! They came, they saw, and they joined.

 

How did I recruited boys when we were thin?

- I recruited the boys as well as the parents! But before that we had to change our ways ... from a adult-run to a boy-run. We put ourselves online.

- I and our SPL came and talked to the webelos dens about us, about scouting, and about their future.

- I got our troop to help out with the pack activities, including providing den chiefs, providing a fun campout and campfire.

- In short ... gain their trust and confidence and provide them with a program that they want to join!

 

If you are successful, don't be complacent and drop recruiting and program and blame the other big troop for taking away from the small ones!

 

From my pov, the small ones are the ones that do not have the support of a lot of parents! These troops are supported by a very small number of parents! Most of the time ... one dedicated SM and 1-2 more adults! As a matter of fact, our troop committee chair was the one who wanted to "selectively" choose the boys! I found myself convincing him and the committee that we take any and all commers and that we are not an exclusive club!

 

Smaller troop is truely more flexible. You can pick up and go at a drop of the hat! That I truely agree with!

 

Smaller troop can be more boy-led. This is not true! As a matter of fact, smaller troop is harder since the patrol can not stay together. I have found that when we were 25 boys, the patrols start to lose their identities when we have to combine the boys so that we will have enough to camp! In our troop now, the patrol identities stay intact at every troop meeting and campouts, because each patrol has 5-8 boys at every campout!

 

"Temptations for adults to step in ..." is not true. Currently, our SPL is a 15 years old Life who has 5 ASPLs to help him run the troop. There are 5 ASMs stand in the back and watch! Last night, the troop meeting got rowdy, but they got the troop together! They even lecture themselves!

 

The key is to get to know your packs and with the PLC develop a good program and stay the course!

 

Of course, a smaller troop can ask the larger troop to advertise for them,ie. encourage the cubs to look at different troops instead of follow the den leader.

 

Advertise your expertise, be it pack-packing, car-camping, hiking, sailing, canoeing, or whatever! Concentrate on the den leader and his/her son!

 

Finally, ask the folks who chose not to join for feedback! I did that and learned that during the first year that I had the recruiting task, the parents who turned away from our troop found that 1) we were unorganized (not knowing that it is the way that boy-run troop are run) 2) felt that no one in our troop cared enough to talk to them (the visiting parents just stood there)! 3) the older boys were "distanced" and ignored the visiting cubs! I took the feedback and worked with our boys and adults to change accordingly!

 

Recruiting is tough work, but most importantly, it is work! When a troop decides that they don't need to ... they will not get the recruits. After 1-2 seasons, the troop will hurt! If the troop is not growing, then the committee needs to look at its operation, recruiting effort, program, and starts to plan for getting new blood! It is very easy to "wooooo" new den leader(s) who are excited about leadership position, but be careful, this is a double edge sword!

 

YIS,

 

1Hour(This message has been edited by OneHour)

[OneHour]

I apologize ... but this hits a nerve for me! I was accused of "bad mouthing" the other troop in order to get boys! I feel bad for the other, but if they don't recruit, they can't blame me and our troop!

 

1Hour

[Lisabob]

OneHour, actually I agree with a lot of what you had to say. When I said it seems as though larger troops can do virtually nothing and still they get new scouts, I certainly didn't mean to suggest that this was a good idea. Yes, it will eventually lead to decline for the troop. It certainly isn't a strategy for staying vibrant or for recruiting new leaders. However, an entrenched troop may be able to "coast" for a while on reputation alone before word starts getting around that they aren't what they used to be, especially if they have a "feeder pack" relationship established. I've seen this happen around here, anyway, unfortunate though it is.

 

You're right as well that some of the things I listed as potential strengths of small troops may also be strengths in larger troops.

 

But I was trying to approach this from the perspective of how to market a smaller troop, and how to counter some of the common perceptions about why joining a small troop might be a bad choice.

[Aquila calva]

One Hour says "We were a small troop 20-25 boys."

 

Gosh. In our Council the "average" size of a Boy Scout troop is 20 scouts. That isn't small. That's average. Not bad at all.

 

The quality of the program, and the good relationship among the members are the most important aspects of this important group activity.

 

Have fun Scouting.

[GernBlansten]

Just got back from our weekly meeting. This thread is spot on with my discussions with our CC and SM tonight.

We had been a smallish troop 20 scouts but maybe 10 really actives for the past few years. We did an aggressive recruiting drive and got 22 new scouts last year. we are getting another 25 this year. I'm seeing a lot what Lisabob mentions. The things I liked about our troop are changing. It is becoming a real challenge to organize any campout. It is becoming a huge task to keep on top of advancement. Scouts are getting lost in the crowd. Some parents complain about the chaos. We are really, really trying to be boy led which feeds the chaos. It was easier when we had a smaller troop. Growing pains I know. I've got perhaps another 3 years with the troop if my son doesn't lose interest. It'll be fun to watch it morph. If you can call that fun.

 

But on the plus side, I can now see the patrol method working and necessary. Patrol method is really silly when you have the same 8 scouts camping out from 3 patrols and have them camp/cook as patrols. But now we have 25 to 30 from 4 patrols. It's starting to come together.

[SemperParatus]

From Aids to Scoutmastership by Lord Baden-Powell of Gilwell...

 

"One Reason Why a Troop Should not Exceed 32

 

The number in a Troop should preferably not exceed thirty-two. I suggest this number because in training boys myself I have found that sixteen was about as many as I could deal with-in getting at and bringing out the individual character in each. I allow for other people being twice as capable as myself and hence the total of thirty-two. Men talk of having fine Troops of 60 or even 100-and their leaders tell me that their boys are equally well trained as in smaller Troops. I express admiration ("admiration" literally translated means "surprise"), and I don't believe them.

 

"Why worry about individual training?" they ask. Because it is the only way by which you can educate. You can instruct any number of boys, a thousand at a time if you have a loud voice and attractive methods of disciplinary means. But that is not training-it is not education.

 

Education is the thing that counts in building character and In making men.

 

The incentive to perfect himself, when properly instilled into the individual, brings about his active effort on the line most suitable to his temperament and powers.

 

It is not the slightest use to preach the Scout Law or to give it out as orders to a crowd of boys: each mind requires its special exposition of them and the ambition to carry them out.

 

That is where the personality and ability of the Scoutmaster come in."

 

****

 

In my experience, B-P was right on the mark.

 

 

[mk9750]

This is less a confirmation or dispute of the points made so far as it is simply another point to consider:

 

Our Troop was at 11 boys when my oldest son joined with 10 other boys and doubled the size of the Troop. Over the last 12 years we have had as many as 48 boys in our Troop, and are now back down to 20.

 

Our experience has been that there is little change in the way a Troop works until it grows or shrinks by about 10 boys at the same time. Our Troop functioned the same with 26 boys as it did with 24. But in years we added 10 guys, the way the Troop functioned changed dramatically, in ways you guys already described and in other ways.

 

The most obvious change we saw was in how youth leadership training happened. Our method when we were small back 10 years ago or so was that leadership training was handled very informally between the Scoutmaster, the SPL and ASPL, and the Patrol Leaders, of which there were two. These effectivly were PLC meetings, but happened most every week, planning next week's and next month's activities "on the fly". Boys with Positions of Responsiblity were trained by their predecesors before the "exchange of control" took place.

 

Once we got over 30 guys, and had three Patrols, informal chats after meetings weren't as effective, and the SM's focus on training became more "official". We held leadership training weekends. One year (and I wish we would do this again, I thought it was very valuable), we did a full Saturday training for APLs, where we asked the two Webelos Dens who were planning on crossing to our Troop to be "Boys Scouts for a day" and let the APLs put into practice what they learned in a formal training session the night before. Actually, it was pretty cool. We simulated and entire weekend campout and a Troop meeting in one day. The APL's got practice leading a Patrol, and the Webelos got a head start on some of the basic skills we teach during their first two months.

 

At any rate, we had to adapt to new realities and adopt new strategies whenever we grew by 10 boys or so. As our Troop as contracted, we've found the same thing. Training is becoming more direct and hands on again. Although we still have PLC meetings, I notice more things are being decided by the guys simply by putting their heads together rather than running a full blown meeting all the time.

 

And neither situation was better or worse than the other, in my opinion. Both have had positive and negative aspects and outcomes. But my point is that as you are anticipate your Troop growing (or shrinking) significantly in a short period of time, we found it wise to begin expecting that significant aspects of our Troop would need to change, also. Being prepared for it makes it easier.

 

Best of luck to you!

 

Mark

[Fuzzy Bear]

We never worried about the size of our Troop but I worried that our Scouts would not welcome new Scouts/boys or Webelos when they visited. I made it a point to speak with our older Scouts and make sure that they understood that visitors take seriously their visits. I encouraged the Scouts to do special program features during those times. I usually did not go into the meeting until it was time for the SM M because I was generally in a SM conference or orientating new Scouts to our unit or working with each new Tenderfoot. I depended on the Scouts to do their jobs. They responded positively and many visitors became members. Many passed on to other units and I wished them well.

 

*Sometimes WDLs would speak about their boys and where their boys would go as if they were holding out a piece of candy. I think they wanted special consideration or something but all I had to offer was our program, so it was always their choice. I wondered about the W Dens coming in as a group because according to the District statistics, only a small percentage bridged and even fewer stayed.

 

My one regret was that we did not hand out a copy of our program to each visitor because we were active and had a great group of parents and a committee support. I also wish we had filmed our activities and made a highlight film to show everyone that visited. fb