When is it time to fold a Troop?

[gwd-scouter]

In another thread I mentioned with great enthusiasm how a very large Webelos Den, essentially affiliated with the very large troop in our District, was looking at our troop. I also mentioned how a few folks from the very large Troop were looking for a change and came to one of our meetings.

 

Oh I was so thrilled...but, my excitement was premature (as usual).

 

I know most of the Webelos from that large Den will not be joining our troop. A couple are still undecided, but they are also undecided about whether to move into Boy Scouts at all.

 

Word got out about the Troop folks that came to visit and now their troop is making a big reorganization and turn around (funny, I even noticed on their website that they are now calling the "Class A" the "Official Uniform" like we do. They also have a few trips in the planning stages that mirror our own. I get a weird sort of thrill that the girl Scoutmaster and the boys in her tiny little Troop have somehow influenced that big, long-existing, troop.

 

Anyway...on to the subject. At the end of this school year our troop will be down to eight Scouts. Admittedly, eight very active and enthusiastic Scouts. I see no prospects for recruitment. My younger son is working as a Den Chief for one small Webelos Den. It only has one fifth grader. Another Pack we're trying to work with, and the one from whom we've received a few Webelos last Spring, is very small and has a Webelos Den with one fifth grader.

 

So, if we get these two boys, that will bring our troop to 10. Not too bad, it's around where we've been for years. But, I just keep getting the feeling that I am doing a disservice to these guys by trying to keep this troop together.

 

If part of the perception for people not wanting to join our troop is because bigger is better, would it be better for everyone if we just folded up our tent and worked to find good troops for our boys? Wouldn't it be better for them in the long run to be a part of a larger troop?

 

I have a suspicion that another reason people shy away from us is because of me - you know, a female Scoutmaster. We have very strong male leadership in our troop that work so well with the boys, but I fear that isn't enough.

 

We aren't closing our doors yet and I am about ready to send in our recharter. I just wonder if this year won't be our last.

 

 

[Hunt]

We have been facing similar issues. Recruiting has been very difficult, but we have had a trickle of younger boys keeping the troop afloat. I continue to think there are some benefits of a smaller troop, and it is a better fit for some boys. Still, there comes a point when you simply lack critical mass...that comes, I think, when you can no longer offer a decent program. Signs would be cancelling many of your events because there aren't enough scouts or leaders, inability to get enough people to turn out for Eagle projects, meetings where only a handful of your boys show up.

Folding a unit is a painful decision; the crew associated with our troop is not be rechartered this time around because of insufficient interest by youth and no adult leaders--it was still very difficult to come to that decision.

[gwd-scouter]

Hunt: our program, even with a small Troop, is one thing in my opinion that sets us apart from other troops. With the exception of Oct. 2005 when my husband was in a serious car wreck, we have not once canceled a monthly outing for lack of adults or boys. Can't say the same for other Troops in our District that regularly cancel outings for one reason or another, yet seem to be able to attract new Scouts.

[TheScout]

"I have a suspicion that another reason people shy away from us is because of me"

 

If this is what you really think then it might be time to step down as Scoutmaster. Silly to have a Scoutmaster who harms recruiting. I am sure another one can be found and trained and you could take on another role.

[gwd-scouter]

TheScout: There is no one else to take over as Scoutmaster, at least not at this time, and I am surely not staying on as SM simply because of some misguided notion that I'm the best there is.

[scoutldr]

To paraphrase the Commander in Chief, the CO is the decider. They are the ones who signed the charter agreement, and only they can decide to "fold the troop". Registered scouts and leaders come and go, but the "Unit" belongs to the CO.(This message has been edited by scoutldr)

[Hunt]

"To paraphrase the Commander in Chief, the CO is the decider. They are the ones who signed the charter agreement, and only they can decide to "fold the troop". Registered scouts and leaders come and go, but the "Unit" belongs to the CO."

 

Technically, this is true, but I don't think it's the reality for many troops. If the folks in the unit aren't able to keep going, most COs are not likely to mobilize to find new people.

[John-in-KC]

ScoutLdr is right, but why are adults talking about this decision without the boys being there?

 

gwd: Get input from the youth. Since they are putting den chiefs into the field, the flow may yet start ... perhaps not this recruiting season. There's nothing wrong with a small Troop, but it'd be a good thing to get them to commit to the trail to Eagle.

 

Next, have your Scouts contact the Webs ... especially the ones who are looking at dropping Scouting. Let them talk about the fun they're having.

 

Beyond that, talk to the your Chartered Partner... keep them in the loop.

[Scoutmaster Ron]

This sounds so much like our troop, we have only 8 registered with about 4 scouts that usually show up, I just took over as SM and tried to hit recruiting hard by going to roundtable, personally going by each an every pack meeting and introducing myself to the den leaders.

 

I've also asked for a list of 2nd years from the council and was going to call the parents to see if there sons have made a decision.

 

The troops in the area are huge anywhere from 30 to 90 registered. I've even considered talking to those SM's to see if they have any boys that may progress better within a large troop.

 

Does anyone have any good selling points on a small troop?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Fuzzy Bear]

gwd,

 

Female or male you do not own all of the problems of the unit, unless you are the only one in the unit, which you said you are not. Boys join a program and they are there to learn to run it; your job is to teach them how. Let someone else worry about the numbers, like the DE or the COR or the CC.

 

Ask the Scouts about how they feel about their program. Ask them if they want more Scouts. Ask them if they are willing to bring their friends to the meetings and campouts. Ask them if they are proud of what they are doing and want to share it with others. Recruiting is their job; patches are available. You may want to follow up on leads, make a few home visits, hand out yearly programs, shake a few hands, enjoy it; dont expect everyone to come running.

 

Do you have a committee and is that committee supporting the program that the Scouts have voted on? Do you have outings or do you have events? If you have done your job and still have time left over, try a hobby to get your mind off other people's jobs.

 

BP spoke about starting a fire with wood not fit for fire building. He noted that it is patience that allows it to heat to burn temperature. If you want a fire don't walk away from it. Most of us are thankful for the fires others built and treasure even the ashes. fb

 

[Lisabob]

Tough choices. Not really knowing your community, it is hard to say whether you have passed the point of no return. I think it is fair to say most people here on this forum are rooting for you and the troop (I know I am). If you are offering a strong program then I'd say keep it up as long as there are boys who want to be part of the troop.

 

You've mentioned recruiting issues before and I can understand the disappointment you are facing in not getting more than a couple of boys this year. On the other hand, if I understand and remember properly from other threads, this is the first year you've had significant interest from local webelos, even if they do end up joining another troop. And you've identified a bigger group of fourth graders who might join your group next year as well.

 

Rebuilding takes a long time. Packs tend to go with what, and who, they know. You are fighting up stream to get them to change their impression of your troop, or even to know you exist. You've been at this for two years or so, right? And at this point you've gotten noticed. That can be the beginning of a stronger relationship with packs, or it can be viewed as "failure" because this year's webelos still mostly chose a bigger troop in town. Personally I'd take the first approach and focus on continuing to do what works for you now, with a focus on current wolf, bear, and webelos I aged boys in the area. If, after another two-three more years you are still getting just one or two new scouts (or none) then it might be time to revisit this question; I just think that, hard as it is when you're in the thick of things, this is a situation that calls for long-range vision. It might be the case that at some point you need to hand off that vision to somebody else but that's not necessarily the same as folding the troop.

 

 

 

 

[gwd-scouter]

Thanks for your comments folks. I re-read my post and my gosh I didn't mean to sound so gloomy. All is not lost after all, maybe I just have the winter doldrums.

 

As I've said many times in my posts, I really like the boys in this troop and am enormously proud of how hard they have worked to "own" it. We may only have 10 guys active right now, but then again we've had at least 50% turnout at every campout for the past year and these past couple of months we've topped 80%. That's fantastic by anyone's reckoning.

 

So, the program is there. The enthusiastic, teachable youth are there. We have one Scout currently serving as a Den Chief and another pack that has asked for one. This I find very interesting actually - we seem to be the ONLY troop in town that will provide a Den Chief. All of the Troops and Packs in our District meet on Monday nights (except for maybe one or two). So, the Troops say they cannot provide a Den Chief because their Scouts have to be at Troop meetings. I say, let them work as a Den Chief - that is also service to the Troop by providing a "look" at the future for the Cubs, and they can find out what they've missed from regular meetings from their PL/SPL.

 

LisaBob says something interesting that I just couldn't quite put into words - it seems unfair that some of the other troops in our District don't even have to try to recruit and they get Scouts anyway. Very true here. In fact, some of the folks that came to visit our Troop did so only to satisfy the AOL requirement. They came to our meeting because they could not attend the scheduled night to visit with the troop they ultimately joined. That troop also would not allow them to go on a campout with them and only allows Webs to join them in Scouting for Food as a Troop activity. Why then did they not choose us?

 

We will continue offering our services to Packs in our District. We will continue to provide Den Chiefs. My sons have both been asked to help MC the District Pinewoody Derby, so that puts our face out there. Younger son and another Scout in our Troop have been asked if they'd help with Day Camp - another opportunity for our Troop to have contact with Cubs.

 

Many of you have said that I've only been at this for two years and you're right. It will take several more years of folks seeing who we are and what we're doing, before the tide hopefully starts to turn in our direction.

 

I can work at it for a few more years I think.

 

 

[OneHour]

gwd-scouter ... you asked:

 

"Why then did they not choose us?"

 

Have you talked to them and their parents? Have you tried to persuade them what a good thing that y'all have and that they can make it better with their expertise? What is it that you don't have that they are looking for? Have you focussed your effort on the Den Leader and his/her son? Have you taken them out on outings and so them the fun that your boys have? Befriend with the leadership in the Pack and constantly put your troop's face in front of the pack! Have you gotten in touch with other packs? Nowaday ... feeder pack is really the exception than the norm.

 

With my recruiting efforts, I have become familiar with the reasons for one troop being chosen over another!

Parents are looking for:

- recommendation from den leader(s)

- name and reputation (former den leader, cubmaster, committee chair whom they respect)

- organization

- leadership (lots of them ... mainly adults, but we all know that this is not possible in a boy-run troop. What they are looking for is adult leaders come by and talk to them!)

- processes and procedures (signs of organization ... junior leaders know what they are doing, again a perception by the adults.)

 

 

Boys will look for:

- fun

- fun

- fun

- fun

 

This year ... we are receiving 10-12 boys from two packs. One den (12 boys) from one of the packs was going to join us; however, at one of the troop meeting that they visited, the den leader's son got hit in the face with a ball when the boys was playing dodgeball. From that point on, the boy decided not to have anything to do with us and chose to go to the other troop. Hence the rest of the den follows. Did we do anything differently from previous years? No, not really. We will pursue new webelos as hard as we can eventhough we don't need any more boys!

 

 

Good luck!

 

1Hour

 

[gwd-scouter]

Yes, in speaking of that large Webelos Den that came to visit, I have talked with some of the parents that chose another troop. A bit of background, this den was formed as Tigers during my last year as Cubmaster for that Pack, so these folks actually know me and may be a reason why they came to visit in the first place. I have talked with the Den Leader to find out where all her Webelos were going.

 

The Asst. Den Leader, whose son came on the campout with us, stopped by our meeting last week and handed me a note from her son saying that he thanked me for letting him visit, but he chose to go with the troop (meaning the one with the same CO). Oh my, she seemed almost embarrased. She said, she left the choice up to him, but if it were her choice he (they) would have joined our troop.

 

The Den Leader, whose son also came on our campout is still undecided but tells me she will leave it up to her son. She says she loves our website, our calendar, and our communications and mostly our receptiveness to their visits and requests - she has not had such experience with the other troops in town.

 

One of the Dads that visited our troop meeting with his son said he enjoyed the meeting, his son interacted very well with our Scouts, but will probably go with the larger troop because, again, that's where some of the other guys are going.

 

Not the whole 10-member den is joining that , one is headed to the Catholic group, and a couple are going to the "easy" troop - you know, the one where the adults do everything including the cooking, and a couple the den leader tells me don't think they'll even continue into Boy Scouts.

 

So, the boys will choose to go where their friends are going, or where their parents decide, or quit at Cubs. None are the best choices I agree. Back in the day when I was a Webelos Den Leader with the aforementioned Pack affiliated with the same mega-troop, I knew no better than to have the entire Den, including my son, cross over to that Troop. A bit less than two years later, my son wanted to quit Boy Scouts altogether. That's the time we found the small troop for whom I am now the SM - a troop in which he thrived while he was still a Scout (he's 20 now).

 

So, yes, I think a couple of the parents in the den are familiar with me, what our Troop has to offer, and the differences in the Troops in our District. Our door is always open...and I left it at that.

 

Hey LisaBob - hijack away, you always have such great insight and most times are able to take my posts and reword them more toward the way I wished I had typed in the first place.

 

 

[Hunt]

"Boys will look for:

- fun

- fun

- fun

- fun"

 

I agree with this, mostly, but I think there is something else boys are looking for, although they wouldn't articulate it--and that's inclusion. This depends entirely on how they are treated by the other boys when they first visit. If they are immediately treated like one of the guys and included in what is going on, that will have a positive impact on them. When we were shopping for troops, we went to a big troop, and they had a whole program for visitors, with games, etc. I was pretty impressed by their level of organization, and their program. When we visited a small troop, they didn't have any special program--they were getting their stuff ready for a campout. The boys immediately drew my son into what they were doing--away from the adults--and treated him like he was already one of them. To him the choice was crystal clear--he joined the smaller troop. This may not be enough to overcome the peer pressure of a whole bunch of denmates joining a troop en masse, but I think it makes a tremendous difference to the single visitor.