AOL to Tenderfoot

[LongHaul]

 

Once again Im faced with the question "Is CAC the only council that does it this way?" According to our Advancement Committee (and we are told this comes from National), the First Rank in Scouting is now SCOUT. I don't have a 2006 edition of the Advancement Committee Policies and Procedures to check, if someone does, look around page 16, Under Advancement rules and regulations, where it lists Boy Scout Advancement. Earning the AOL normally prepares the boy to be able to complete the joining requirements for Scout but Tenderfoot has a number or requirements which are not addressed as Webelos. #1, #2, #3, #8. As a SM I go along with Lisabob in that you can't start working on advancement until you join the troop.

LongHaul

 

[Gonzo1]

Oldman,

Welcome to the forum

I must agree with Ed and Lisa on this.

A boy isn't a Boy Scout until he crosses and completes the application. Then he can work toward Tenderfoot, not before.

[John-in-KC]

LH,

 

Scout has been the first rank of the Boy Scout program since at least 2001 (when my son bridged). Looking at USscouts, it looks like the rank was established in 1999.

 

Here are the things for the rank of Scout that need to be done before the transition:

Meet age requirements: Be a boy who has completed the fifth grade and be at least 10 years old, or be 11 years old, or have earned the Arrow of Light Award and be at least 10 years old, and be under 18 years old.

 

Complete a Boy Scout application and health history signed by your parent or guardian.

 

Find a Scout troop near your home. (To find a troop, contact your local Boy Scout Council. The Council name, address and phone number can be found on BSA's Council Locator Page.)

 

Here are the things that can and should be done as the young man approaches the Scoutmaster for the first time. Some are done to get the AOL, but remember that Boy Scouts is not just about the transition from W-B. There are non-Cubs who join:

 

Repeat the Pledge of Allegiance.

 

Demonstrate the Scout sign, salute, and handshake.

 

Demonstrate tying the square knot (a joining knot).

 

Understand and agree to live by the Scout Oath or Promise, Law, motto, and slogan, and the Outdoor Code.

 

Describe the Scout badge.

 

Complete the Pamphlet Exercises. With your parent or guardian, complete the exercises in the pamphlet "How to Protect Your Children from Child Abuse: A Parent's Guide".

 

Participate in a Scoutmaster conference. Turn in your Boy Scout application and health history form signed by your parent or guardian, then participate in a Scoutmaster conference.

 

In truth, there is nothing here that is not rote memorization except 9 and 10. Well, maybe the Oath, Law and code...

 

There is concurrent crediting of requirements for T through 1st Cl, but that's a different matter than getting the young man across the bridge.

 

 

 

 

 

[oldman]

Thanks everyone. I was motivated by my desire to help the boys advance, concern by parents of former cubs that after a month their sons had not gotten rank advancement and an awareness that doing anything consistently for thirty days is the hardest task for a boy that age. But as Lisabob and most everyone pointed out, that's only learned by doing it. Some of you said it might vary by case. (My Eagle son's former W2 den did the physical activities every day for thirty days; the other W2 den in our pack only did them at meetings.) But I'll stick with the strict constructionist reading so that all boys will be treated the same

 

Oldman

[ScoutNut]

oldman - Remind these new Troop parents that their boys are no longer Cub Scouts & that the Boy Scout program is VERY different from Cub Scouts.

 

Advancement is NOT the purpose of Boy Scouting. Attaining the rank of Eagle, while a wonderful goal, is NOT the aim of the Boy Scout program. Advancement is simply ONE of EIGHT Methods used to achieve the real Aims of the Boy Scout program (Character Development, Citizenship Training & Personal Fitness).

 

Boys will mature and advance at their OWN rate. Giving them needed oportunities & encouraging them works well. There is no need to rush or push.

[Stosh]

Obviously the wording of the Webelos book has changed since I did my WB ticket. The only thing that holds true now is whether or not he has AOL. If he does he does not need to be 10 years old nor need to complete the 5th grade. If the boy receives is AOL at a Jan/Feb Blue Gold Banquet, he does not need to wait until June to join a troop. The discressionary option for SM to forego Scout and Tfoot ranks is no longer worded in the book as it had been in the past.

 

With the exception of waiting for a month to practice the physical fitness test, an AOL scout could knock out all those requirements in an evening anyway, having done the requirements once or twice before.

[Lisabob]

It seems about every time we all figure out the program, it changes just enough to keep us on our toes! Along those lines - jblake - in 2004 the wording of the "joining requirements" was changed so that a boy MUST be at least 10 years old in order to join a troop - AOL or not. Here's a link to the current wording:

 

http://www.usscouts.org/advance/boyscout/bsrank1.html

[Beavah]

Yah, Oldman. Yeh really should think about an orientation session for all new parents to explain how Boy Scouting is really very different from Cubbin'. It's a harder transition for the parents than it is for da kids, eh?

 

 

[MarkS]

OM,

 

If you think about it, achieving Scout rank is an advancement from Webelos so the boys crossing over can advance right away. What's different about Boy Scouts is advancemnts are presented at COHs which occur on a Troop defined schedule but are typically about one every three months. Rather than immediately or at the very next opportunity as they should be done in Cub Scouts.

 

Our Troop has a COH in March because the local Packs tend to bridge their boys at their B&Gs in February. At bridging they get their handbooks and red loops (our boys elected not to have a neckerchief) from our Troop. During their first couple of Patrol Mtgs after joining, our new scouts work with their TG to get oriented and sign off on their Scout rank which is presented at our March COH. So you get them transitioned to the Boy Scout method of advancement presentation while retaining and eventually weening the boys from the Cub Scout method of award presentation.

 

If the boys participate in our Troop meetings and outings, they'll make Tenderfoot before their second COH and 1st Class within a year. That's four ranks in one year--an advancement almost every COH. They don't advance that fast in Cub Scouts.

[ScoutNut]

MarkS - Boy Scouts should be recognized ASAP, just like Cub Scouts. There is no reason to wait until a COH. When a boy passes his BOR for rank he can be given his Pocket Certificate at the next week's Troop meeting. No need to wait for 3 months! At the COH he can be given his rank patch.

 

Recognizing accomplishments ASAP helps to keep the boys motivated & interested.

[Stosh]

What's the point in giving the boy the certificate if he can't wear the patch. I say reverse it. If he's earned the rank, give him the patch and present him with recognition (certificate) at the COH. Technically, the boy has earned the rank when he is done with his BOR and the signatures are finalized. At that point a patch could be presented for the rank he has earned. Everything beyond that is fluff. If that doesn't fly because you haven't gone through council as of yet, then there should be any recognition until the council says it's ok. (Which by the way I find nowhere in any scout literature/rules, etc.)

[SSScout]

The original question here concerned the physical fitness requirement of Webelos being acceptable also for the TF rank. The discussion has (as is often the case here, ain't it wonderful?) roiled into subbing one earned requirement for the next ranks requirement.

 

#1. The Webelos who crosses over into Boy Scouts, by present requirements, must first EARN the Scout badge. If his Web leaders were worth their salt, this should be a breeze. One SM conference should do it. Then, ...

 

#2. After two months, if they are sharp, the nascent BS can be awarded the TF badge, if he has EARNED it. Again, if his Web leaders were on the ball, this should also be a breeze. His Troop leaders (SM, ASMs, PL,etc. ) should have all the opportunities available to make it possible. But the Web pins should not be used as evidence that the TF requirements HAVE been done. Frinstance, the physical fitness reqmnt asks that the Scout "show improvement" over a 30 day period. This CANNOT be the same 30 day period that was done back when he was a Web. (didn't we discuss rank requirement "adjustments" before?) How can a BS who has a TF badge that was "expressed" thru the rank be compared to one that has not? The same arguments are made elsewhere in these forums.

 

#3. I know of a Troop that , when the boy has his TF (and to my knowledge, there are no shortcuts here with them), they then teach the First Aid Merit Badge ( the instructor is an emergency room physician) to them and use THAT certification for the Second Class requirement also. Comes First Class, the requirements are reviewed, but since the boy already has the FA MB, he is expected to be ready for the review. It is not automatic. Is a 12 year old SC Scout an authority in First Aid?

 

#4. Back when I was a fledgling Scout, one was not allowed to earn MBs until one had the FC badge. So it was a cumulative thing. Fexample, The SC first aid led to the FC first aid and the FA MB built on the knowledge (neckerchief tourniquets?) garnered in the time spent practicing for the first three ranks. There was also a time restriction. You HAD to wait three months for each of your ranks. One could not do ALL the requirements and be awarded the first three ranks at the first CoH that came along. (I've seen this happen of late. Is it right? I'm not sure I like the idea.)

 

#5. So over all, I am NOT in favor of expressing a Scout thru his ranks. The practice, the teaching of skills to younger Scouts, are all part of the METHOD. It is good for SC Scouts to teach TF candidates. Let the nascent AoL Scout show his proficiency to his SM for the Scout badge, and then move on...

 

YiS

 

 

 

 

 

[Gonzo1]

I agree with jblake47, give the scout the patch first, the card / certificate later.

 

SSScout, I had to earn at least one merit badge for Tenderfoot. I never heard of not being allowed to work on MB's until First Class.

 

[LongHaul]

Gonzo1,

Don't remember any merit badge being a requirement for Tenderfoot. Troop adding to the requirements? As for not working on Merit Badges until after you attain the rank of First Class, exceptions were merit badges worked on at summer camp. This was the approach in the 60's when I was a scout. Ranks were earned in order, you couldn't begin working on 2nd class until you made tenderfoot etc. You had to be First Class before you were supposed to be contacting MBCs and working on your own. If memory serves this started to change in the 70's with the skill awards which could be earned in any order but were rank requirements for different ranks.

LongHaul

 

[Gonzo1]

LongHaul,

Not adding requirement. I can't find my old handbook right this second, but I recall having to earn a MB for T'foot. I chose to earn Firemanship. It was 1973 or 1974.