Unit Commissioners and Tweaks - Proper Role

[Beavah]

Gonzo wrote recently:

 

I'm a UC. I attended a troop meeting where the troop had a BOR, they had 2 committee members and A LIFE SCOUT SIT IN ON THE BOARD. While this is wrong, I did not come unglued. I asked the BOR chairman what was going on, he said they let older scouts sit in and participate on younger scouts BOR. At the next committee meeting, I addressed it and with the COR, I called him and let him know the next day, no scouts sitting in on BOR' ..... no changing the (da) pragram.

 

This was handled OK, eh? The observation was addressed to the Committee and COR for their action (or, presumably, their choice not to act). I confess as a District and Council commish, it was a bit aggressive for my taste. A PO'd unit can easily say "this commissioner no longer welcome on our property", which doesn't help our efforts any. So I might be havin' a word with Gonz on gentler and more service-oriented approaches.

 

I'm curious as to others' views, particularly those who serve "for real" as Commissioners at one level or another. Discovering this situation how do you respond?

 

1. Formal or informal

A) I would talk informally to the SM/CC/AC (whoever puts together BORs), explain the reason for the guideline. I'd go no further, and spend my time on helping them wherever their biggest need is.

B) I'd do like Gonzo, and show up at the next Committee Meeting, and call the COR for backup. I'd make 'em do it right.

 

2. Collegial or authoritative

A) Do you explain the reasons for the guideline to them, listen carefully to their point of view and what they are trying to accomplish, and perhaps suggest a compromise like using 3 adults on the board with the youth as a non-voting member?

B) Do you tell them that they must do BOR with only registered Committee members because that's the requirement, and they're not allowed to change.

 

3. Empirical or theoretical absolute

A) Before I do anything, I'd talk to the rank candidate or ask to sit as an observer on the BOR, to see how BOR's actually go in this unit. If the BOR did a good job for the kid and the unit, I'd let it go in favor of more important things. If there were issues, I'd discuss those when a good opportunity arose.

B) I don't care if the BOR did a good job or not. No youth members are allowed to participate, period.

 

4. Consistent or inconsistent

Is your response to 1-3 the same if they use non-committee adults on the BOR? For example, if

a) they use a parent (of another boy) who is not registered?

b) If they invite you as a Unit Commissioner to sit on a BOR?

c) If the pastor (IH) drops by and they invite him to participate on the BOR?

(Remember, the guideline is only unit committee members on BORs other than Eagle.)

 

Personally, I think 80%+ of the units in my district use some non-committee folks on their BOR's. That's typically parents, but also Venturers, kids who serve on the troop committee, UC's, scouters from a neighboring site at summer camp, a COR youth minister, the DE, etc. etc. That'd be a lot of commish time and energy "fixing", eh?

 

What say the group?

[jr56]

I guess a non-confrontational approach would be the best. Point out the deficiancy to the scoutmaster/ committee chairman, or perhaps the troop advancement chair, whoever I felt I had the most raport with. Give the advice in an educational tone, maybe they aren't aware of the deficiency. Once they have been informed, if they choose to continue it, I guess I would let it pass, since like you said, I don't want to antagonize the unit and have them throw me out on my ear.

[dancinfox]

I would talk to the district advancement chair and to the Boy Scout roundtable commissioer an plan a roundtable that specificlly deals with advancement in the unit and BOR. I would make sure that the unit leaders of this unit where invited and offer to give rides to get them their. This way not only this unit, but additional units whould hear it from the advancement chair's mouth and not mine. I would also offer to sit in on future BOR for the unit.

Dancin

[Gonzo1]

Allow me to clarify.

 

I can't think of a time when I serve as a commissioner that I don't use a gentle approach. I wouldn't correct a scout for example, I only deal with adult leadership.

 

I was asked by the COR of this troop to come and observe and to help fix things that need fixing. The COR is also an ADC, but has some conflict with committee members.

 

There's more to this that I sent in a PM to Beavah.

 

I had no idea that a post would be fodder for this type of discussion, however, I hope we can learn from this. I appreciate Beavah's comments and comments of the forum.

 

 

[Eamonn]

I can't help thinking that just as we treat each Scout as an individual, we need to do the same for adults.

My big question to myself would be; "Why are they doing it like that?"

Back when I was District Commissioner, I liked to think I kinda knew who the Scoutmasters were and what sort of program they offered.

We have the guys who know they are doing things not as they should. They really don't care and think what they are doing is better than can be found any place.

Trying to do anything with them is not going to achieve anything.

However to ease my conscience, I would try and find the right time and place to have a word in the ear of the SM or who ever was in charge.

I might back it up by e-mailing him /her a copy of the Board of Review Training found at

http://www.scouting.org/boyscouts/supplemental/18-625/index.html

We have a few people who might not know that what they are doing is not the way it should be done. Again depending on my relationship with them, I would make mention of it.

We also have the people who as a rule do things by the book. While I don't see them inviting youth members to sit in on a BOR, there has been an occasion when a BOR was supposed to sit and at the last minute someone has called saying that they can't make it. They have asked me to sit in.

Rather than cancel the BOR and let the Scouts down I have agreed to sit in. I would say that this is very much the exception and not the rule.

Commissioner Service is about knowing the people you serve.

You bet there were times when I wished I could have found a phone booth and changed into my Super Commish uniform and rushed in faster than a speeding bullet to save Scouting as we know it. But that isn't the way we do things.

We can try and educate those who want to be educated. We can provide the information, but what happens after that is not in our hands.

As we all know the penalty for not following the program (Where no one gets hurt or harmed) is raised eyebrows or a shake of the head.

If we really are a true friend of the unit, we will try to do what is best for the unit. Even if that means staying away!!

If of course the DE hears that the program is not being followed and he is meeting with the IH and brings it to his attention. We are in a different ball field.

So far as I know we have only ever had one unit (A Crew) which the Council (SE) refused to recharter, because he didn't feel what they were doing was in line with the values of Scouting.

As a Council we have all sorts of units, that have tweaked the program. We have the Camo Guys, the Eagle Scout Mills, the Troops that never camp, You name it and I think we have it.

Sure other units look at what they are doing in disbelieve. Sure the adults in charge of these units seem to think what they are doing is for the best or better than the product that is being offered.

They keep doing what they do, because they can.

Eamonn.

 

[Fuzzy Bear]

In the old times, the UC was known as the Neighborhood Commissioner. He was a person known and trusted by the units he served (*shes were not known to this job at that time). Today, a new recruit is brought in and told to go and do good. So, now it becomes a job where people are serving people that they don't know. The job easily can be one of enforcement rather than Sheparding a few friends along in a program filled with twists and turns. Some of the twists may come from a person that "used to do it that way" or from a person that is trying their hardest to do well but just lacks information.

 

So, here is the order of things after you have been thoroughly trained:

1. Get to know the people in the unit. This takes time.

*The reason is that CHANGE is difficult and is best taken with the help of a good friend.

2. Get to know them by phone first and then a Sunday afternoon visit.

3. Get to know them by inviting them to training, any kind of training, including Roundtable.

4. Get to know them through a 10 minute visit on one meeting night. Shake their hands. Take them a cup of coffee. Leave.

5. Get to know them through a 30 minute visit on a campout that is close by. Drink a cup of coffee with them. Leave.

6. Concentrate on getting to know the person by not looking at what is happening, unless there is a noticeable Safety issue.

7. Get to know them through visitation at a Camporee.

8. After three to six months, then begin to take a general look at what they are doing.

9. Take on issues that you know will not alienate them from you as a new friend. Try change through inviting the person to a specific training.

10. Make sure that as you move along with the friendship that you keep the ADC and DC informed. They will have good insight and can be a good sounding-board.

11. It may take one to two years before real change occurs. Don't rush.

12. Friendships should be fun and meaningful with little confrontation. When change does occur with as little discomfort as possible that is when you know that you are an effective UC.

 

The Scout on the BOR is all secondary to this arrangement of things.

 

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[Gonzo1]

Everybody,

 

These are great comments.

 

Here's a little more clarification:

This unit was recently assigned to me. I call the SM first, chatted briefly. Attended a meeting and was asked to provide any help at all.

At the second meeting I attended, I noticed the BOR situation. I mentioned it to the CC and COR.

 

The CC and COR have asked for more guidance. I don't think I'm overstepping my bounds. I'm trying to take a somehwat gentl approach, none of the adults are trained. I'm going to get them to training. The troop does NOT attend district or council events, that too in time will change.

 

Thanks for the mentorhsip. It sure beats griping with Brianbuf.

 

Happy New Year to all.