Accepting Tips on How to pick a Charter Organization.....

[Joni4TA]

Please, anyone with experience in this matter, feel free to fill this post with knowledge

 

Seriously... our Troop is currently chartered by "The Parents of Troop _ _ _." I kid you not.. that is what the charter actually says. We're in the process of possibly chartering with a local church but it's been nearly 9 months of having the church, our CC and SM in discussions and the whole YAY or NAY has basically been tied-up in red-tape and it doesn't look good, since Recharter is just around the corner. Personally I think National was very gracious in allowing the unit to be "Chartered by the Parents" in the first place (I wasn't with the Troop at that time).

 

But when we found out at our last Committee meeting, that the church was not going to consider being our charter org. until after the holidays and the first of the year, myself and another committee member said basically, "This has got to stop - we need to move on and explore other alternatives." So now we are actively researching new possible charter orgs. - but we have very limited resources here. (small rural town) And honestly we believe it would be best to seek charter with a group OUTSIDE the religious/church umbrella - IF we can!

 

I actually have a couple questions..

 

Is there anything (BSA policy or otherwise) keeping us from having a local BUSINESS be our CO? Such as a Chevy dealer or the local Radio Shack, etc?

 

Does it absolutely have to be a "community service-based organization"?

 

Do you think there are any exceptions to the "community-service-based organization" ideal based on locality and organization availability? **Example - the closest VFW post is in another town, over 20mi away... no Red Cross within 30 miles, very few local churches, etc.

 

Is it possible to have one organization charter us and then have another location offer us a meeting place? Or is that too many hands in the pot type of thing?

 

I don't know... suggestions EXTREMELY welcome and appreciated.

 

And just an FYI, YES the DE is well aware of this. He wants us to find a charter pronto. (DE is a brand new DE as well and has a lot going on). Our Unit Commissioner is brand new but is also aware of this. Neither of them have the local ability to step in and "find us a CO" or I bet they would have before now.

 

Anyhow, just seeking advice... fire away!

[John-in-KC]

I know of several businesses in my District who charter Packs, Troops and Crews.

 

The issue is simple: Is the potential Chartered Partner willing to live up to its side of the Charter Agreement?

- Facilities

- Leader Selection

- Commitment to youth service in general and the Scouting Program in particular

- OWNERSHIP of the unit, for that is what the Charter is: A granting of a license to use the Scouting program. Downstream, if the IH or COR instruct the Committee to "do X," as long as X is inside the bounds of G2SS, Advancement Policy, uniform policy, the Committee (and for that matter, the PLC) does not get a vote. So ... be careful of what you ask for; it can be a two edged sword

 

As long as the local Council buys in, then the business can be a chartered partner.

 

The best persons to ask are your District or Council Commissioners.(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

[frank10]

A busiiness can be a CO and many are. Problem is that unless they form a tax exempt foundation your troop is just an other business unit. Donations to the troop are income to the CO. Purchases by the troop are business expences.

 

Talk to a CPA (or such).

[Joni4TA]

I appreciate the info and advice... soaking it all in here. My husband has a BBA and he had the same concern basically, wingnut.. so we are leaning toward soliciting an organization such as the Knights of Columbus, which isn't owned by a church, but made up of parishoners - and fits the bill as a community service-based org.

 

Apparently the local Masons already said NO, and there are a couple more churches we can ask, but like I said - it really looks as if we are trying to move away from a church as the CO. It can get difficult when you have a Troop with members who have differing religious backgrounds.

 

Sometimes I really miss being in a larger city - charter org smorgasbord lol

[prairie]

Check with your local Lions, Kiwanis, Leigon or other service clubs, many are happy to find a local project to support.

[SR540Beaver]

Joni,

 

Been there, done that. A few years ago our Webelos boys crossed over to a troop in the area. I won't bore you with the details, but we really were not wanted and things went south quickly after joining. We joined in February and left to start a new troop in June. We chartered as "parents of" too and then I was tasked with finding a charter organization. I was turned down by many a church including my own church which is a big church and had more than ample room to house 8 boys and 6 adults. We were kind of desperate to find a CO since we as "parents of" really had no facility to use as a meeting place. Our old CO for our Pack allowed us to use their facilities until the Cubs started back in the Fall. Long story short, we found a tiny church that was looking for more ways to tie into the community and they accepted us. They had no money to help us and all they could provide was a Sunday School room we could use for meetings. It wasn't our room to use and decorate. We shared it with a Sunday School class. They did allow us to use the parking lot for a garage sale and the gym/worship center for a lock-in. We were just grateful to find someone that would take us in, but it was never an ideal situation.

 

What we went thru and what you went thru is not the textbook way a unit starts. We both have ready made troops in search of a CO. The textbook says that an organization decides they want to utilize the Scouting program within their outreach to the community. They contact the council who sends the DE to meet with them. After discussing what is involved, the IH recruits a COR. The COR recruits an Committee Chair. The Committee Chair recruits committee members and an SM. The SM recruits ASM's. Everyone gets training and recruits boys to join the unit. It takes 3 adults and 5 boys to start a unit. Of course, since the organization decided to sponsor a unit and did all of the adult recruiting, they are proud of their unit and heavily involved in it.

 

Back to reality, you often have to search long and hard to convince someone to give you space to hold a meeting. Then they get upset everytime they find a light left on. The DE should be heavily involved in helping you find a CO. Of course, if he is behind on FOS, he likely won't have the time. That is his first priority and then membership is second. If FOS is good, then he is more than happy to help you start a new unit so the numbers will be up and growth can be shown. I don't mean that to sound cynical, just being realistic based on my experience.

 

The good news is that you can continue to operate under "parents of" as long as you can provide meeting space. That type of chater isn't porvisional or temporary. Most Methodist Churches have troops. If your local Methodist church does not, try them. The Presbyterian, Episcopalian and Catholic churches are big supporters of BSA too. I'm a life long Baptist and I can tell you that Baptists for some reason seldom sponsor units. Same for Assembly of God. There are exceptions, but they are exceptions. Masons are another avenue. They were interested when we were looking, but could only give us space on Friday nights. That is a death sentence for operating a troop.

 

Keep looking and take time if you can afford it. Find an organization where the IH and COR has Scouting experience. Find one that is willing to support you with dedicated facilities and financially if possible.

 

Good luck!

[Beavah]

Yah, da "parents of" units are frowned on by the BSA, but have been allowed on a short-term basis largely because of the need/push to decharter public schools. And it's always weird to me to shop existing units to organizations. Not "by the book" as my fellow Beavah says.

 

Prairie, is there a reason why you guys don't want a church as a sponsor? I think it's important to have a CO that matches the "character" of the unit. So if yours isn't religious, or the CO isn't "ecumenical", then that's important, eh?

 

Nuthin' says a local business can't charter a unit. I know of a bunch. Best to be a small business with a long-time owner who likes scoutin', or a bigger business that offers child care type services to its workers. Somehow, they've got to have a reason to stick with it.

 

Knights of Columbus have a fairly recent "national direction" to reach out and expand their programming for young people, young men in particular. They're a target in our council for possible new units. Nationally, they charter a lot of troops. Catholic units are usually pretty open to kids of many different faiths, the way most Catholic schools are. But that's a conversation you'd want to have with the Knights, eh?

 

Local PTO perhaps?

 

Yeh might call your Chamber of Commerce and explain what you're lookin' for. They often may have a notion or thought that you hadn't considered.

 

Other fraternal organization? Moose? Elks? Grange?

 

Most important thing is to find a good fit. CO's, in addition to providin' some resources, are a key ingredient to long-term unit stability/survival (least that's what my National figures say). So yeh want to find one that is a good foundation/anchor.

 

[Hunt]

I would also urge you not to write off a church as your CO too quickly--many churches sponsor troops that have boys of many religions--my son's troop is sponsored by a Baptist church (one of the exceptions, I guess), and I don't think there are any Baptists in it. A church can often offer you a good place to meet, and possibly even a place to store your stuff, park your trailer, etc.

A PTA or PTO, in my opinion, is generally not a very good CO, because its membership is too transitory, and there are always problems with access to the school for meetings--they're not likely to give you a key, for example. Maybe this would be different in a small town.

One question: is there a Cub Scout Pack around? Who's their sponsor? If they don't have a troop, too, that could be a good CO for you.

[epalmer84]

To answer an earlier question: yes, the CO and the host can be two separate organizations. We have been sponsored by the Ruritans, but meet at a church where we have had ties since the original troop was formed in the 1930s. The Ruritans have given us decent support, but their membership has been declining. We approached the church, but really did not get any feedback- their membership is rather on the older side and is stable and their youth group is struggling.

 

In the meantime, the pack has been sponsored by the Methodist church here- their membership is growing and they have two pastors. They have a strong youth group that accepts members from other churches. The senior pastor is the COR and the Cubmaster, his son is in our troop.

 

So- we are moving to the Methodists. The troop is already getting settled in. I will be doing a crew presentation Monday to the youth croup. I already have one Girl Scout signed up- she just finished her Gold and is ready to do something different.

 

Ed

[scoutldr]

Just curious as to why the DE and DC are off the hook here? Isn't it THEIR job to work with the unit to identify potential CO's and then go in and sell the program? Why is this being left up to the unit to "sink or swim"?

[SR540Beaver]

I guess it is different in different parts of the country. Around here, the majority of troops have a church as their CO and all of them have open membership to my knowledge with the exception of the LDS bunch. I don't know of any church that limits their troop to just members of their church, faith or denomination.

 

Our CO is a Methodist church and we have been there nearly 45 years. Of the 65 boys on the roster, the ones who do attend church go to some variety of Christian church. I think there might be a small handfull of boys who actually attend our CO and that is purely coincidence.

 

Of the two other troops I have been associated with, they both had churches as CO's and not a single boy in the troops attended those churches.

[prairie]

Beavah wrote: "Prairie, is there a reason why you guys don't want a church as a sponsor? I think it's important to have a CO that matches the "character" of the unit. So if yours isn't religious, or the CO isn't "ecumenical", then that's important, eh?"

 

Not really, though I have seen where when a church changes pastors and the whole troop/CO relationship changes. My troop for decades stored equipment at the church we meet at, when a new pastor showed up we were only allowed to keep our flags there, though more important we were still allowed to meet there. The troop did have to find a new sponsor this year, after 40+ years the old COs membership got so small they could not sustain themselves, the new CO has their own building and were happy to take us on.

 

 

[local1400]

I dont see anything wrong with being chartered by the parents. The Troop I grew up in was chartered in 1912 by "A GROUP OF CITIZENS" You know what? They still are even though the troop merged in the 90's with the 'other' troop in town who was sponsored by the Kiwanis I believe. You know why the "group" works? NO kid feels he wont fit in because he's Methodist and the CO is the Congregational Church!!!!!I myself attend Baptist services but would not likely go to a scout troop at a Catholic church (NO OFFENSE anyone). Also some parents may not allow their kids to attend if say Dad is a Lion and the CO is the Elks. All of these are great civic organizations that do lots of good in their community but dont feel you HAVE To have a 'real' group as CO>

[Joni4TA]

I know our Troop isn't necessarily and completely discounting the possibility of *A* church being our CO. The problem is, we have been chartered by "The Parents" so long, that everyone on the Troop Committee wants this to change. As a result of being chartered by the "The Parents," we haven't had a steady place to a) keep our equipment, and b) to have our meetings. We've had to move our equipment twice, as well as our meeting place - all in the last 7 months or so. We just want some stability - which is why being chartered by the parents just isn't working for the unit anymore, know what I mean?

 

The current church that is allowing us to use their space to meet - also has that building up for sale, and will not allow us to store our equipment there. So it's a pain! They agreed to allow us to meet there, about the same time we approached them to also be our CO and that was SEVEN MONTHS ago!

 

Since then, they have put our request into their church committee meetings, they've talked about being our CO, they keep tabling it and putting it off, pending what I am not sure?? Even our CC and SM aren't totally forthcoming on WHY they're dragging their feet. It's possible there are denominational issues - as the CC and SM are members of the church. But the boys in the Troop are of mixed denomination and half the boys and families do go to their church, but the other half don't? Information at National in regard to chartering is somewhat ambiguous as to the CO's ability to administer youth ministry and/or prostelyze to the youth in the Troop. I think this may be ONE of the issues?? Though I am not totally sure??

 

According to National "Scouting can be the sleeping giant

of outreach as **the church realizes that to

have its own Scouting unit means it has

ownership and the ability to direct the

program** in the best interest of its

participants. In other words, the unit is

church-owned and church-administered."

 

Also, the CO has the ability to choose its leadership. But how can a church as a CO just implement that with an established unit? We already HAVE leadership.... and our Boys aren't strictly ONE denomination - we are all members of different local churches.

 

I am being careful not to offend anyone on this board, as well as the people of our Troop, and any possible CO by not discussing the exact denominations involved here. But as was already stated by Scouter.com Member "Local1400" - he is Baptist and would never be involved with a Troop that operated under the CO of a Catholic Church - so figure it out for yourselves - we are dealing with a similar (though not the same) issue here. I respect people's beliefs and this adamance may or not be the case here, but clearly SOMETHING is keeping this church from jumping in and agreeing to be our CO. It's just an educated GUESS that this is part of the holdup.

 

And THAT is why I think it would be best for our Troop if we seek a NON-CHURCH affiliated CO, just to avoid ANY possible denominational issues. I don't want to offend or lose boys/Scout families based on who may or may not be the CO. If we go with NO CHURCH - it's got to be a Win-Win!

 

In any case, now that we are getting so close to recharter time, the same church planning committee has decided yet again - to table discussion on chartering our Troop until after January 2007. So we're halfway to nowhere with this church, and it's been 7 months. By January it will be nearly 9 months with our Troop wondering...

 

Nothing against the church, its membership, the members of our Troop who are soliciting the church to be the CO, or anyone else - but as a Troop Committee Member - my concern is the stability of the Troop, and offering the best possible snag-free Program to its Youth. I have NO OTHER motivation here! I just feel like we are barking up the wrong tree, waiting around in the hopes that this church is going to suddenly move in our direction and agree to be our CO. At what point (7-9 months???) do we need to realize it's just NOT going to happen for us with this church?

 

But then we get into the ruralness of our local area -

we have NONE of the following organizations locally -

 

Salvation Army

American Legion

VFW

Red Cross

Lions Club

Moose Lodge

Rotary Club

Boys and Girls Club

Elks Lodge

Disabled American Veterans

Fraternal Order of Eagles

Optimist Club

 

Etc - I could go on and on about what we DON'T have around here LOL, it's a town of less than 2,000 folks!

 

We have at least 4 Baptist churches in the area that I know of (2 are Primitive *not sure what that means actually*, one "Bible" Church, one Catholic church, one Lutheran church and one Methodist church. Other than that, we have a Sonic, a Radio Shack, a Dairy Queen, a Chevy dealer, and some ice houses (gas station/convenience stores), a very small local market, a few other mom & pop stores, small locally-owned restaurants, one Dollar General, one roadhouse/bar - and a partridge in a pear tree

 

TO address some of the questions -

 

scoutldr -

Our DE isn't really off the hook, however he's a brand-spankin new DE who just got the DE job - has Scouter experience galore - but new as a DE and new to the area. He inherited basically a nightmare District which is very "poor" (economically) in nature. But it's worse than that, it's also a HUGE District which spans the size of a handful of New England STATES! I know he is doing the very best that he can... I do not even know who our DC is - but I know our UC, and he just stepped into that position about a month ago or so, having only a few years Scouting exp. under his belt. I believe they are hoping since the Troop has better "local contacts" that we'll get with it and find ourselves a CO.

 

 

Hunt -

there is one more Troop in our town (long story - they spun off of our Troop about the same time we were all asked to vacate the first meeting place 7 months ago - I wasn't here with the Troop then but joined at the tail end of all that change so I have no idea why for sure.) and I do not know who charters them. There is also only 1 Pack, and they are chartered by a local Church, though a different church than the one we meet at. As I said, I think it would be better if we step away from a specific denomination or church CO.

 

I sure appreciate being able to bounce all this off you guys. I have always found this site to be a wonderful resource in Scouting. I can get a lot of usually well-educated opinions, from all over the world! Nothing is finer than that. Thank you

[SR540Beaver]

Joni,

 

This sounds like the gal who holds out for years waiting for her boyfirend to ask her to get married. If they can't get off the fence after 7 months when the SM, CC and half the boys belong to their church, quit waiting and start asking others. If they take that long to make a decision, chances are you know what kind of CO they will be long term. Competition is good. Maybe shopping the troop to other churches will get them on the stick.

 

As I said earlier, maybe it is different in different parts of the country. I'm fairly "hooked in" in our council and in two districts and I am unaware of any church that serves as a CO that requires scouts to be a member of their church or denomination except the LDS. The units I have served had a Presbyterian, Episcopalian and Methodist church as their CO's and the faith of the adult leaders and/or boys was never an issue in any of them. Like Hunt, I am a Baptist and I never let that fact stop me from serving in any of these units. Heck, around here there is a Baptist church on almost every corner and not a single one of them will be involved in scouting. If I used my denomination to determine my activity in scouting, I'd be sitting in the comfort of my home instead of freezing my tail of like I did last weekend on a campout.

 

Try the car dealership in town. You have nothing to lose. You can probably get a pretty nice trailer out of the deal in return for the dealerships name painted on the trailer. Religious affiliation wouldn't be an issue. It would be great PR for the dealership everytime the troop does a service project.