FOS contribution levels

[WDL Mom]

Hi All,

 

This may be a dumb question, but, here goes... Council is supported by popcorn sales and FOS contributions, right? So, does the amount of popcorn affect your FOS goal? Or are they calculated separately?

 

We sell a ton of popcorn, last two year over 25K. Our FOS was doubled! After the kids and parents work so hard on selling popcorn to support scouting it seems like such a huge slap in the face to get hit up again for FOS.

 

Is this right, or am I more confused than normal?

[theysawyoucomin']

How was your FOS doubled?

It is a voluntary contribution. Who told you it was doubled?

What was it before ?

 

What is it now?

[dancinfox]

Just a little food for thought. When FOS presenters use an amount of $115 or $120, they are most likely getting it from the council finance director who calculates the total cost of running the council (ie: council camps, wages for professionals and support staff, program materials, etc.) subtracts United way giving and other income such as camping income and event income and divides the left over by the total number of youth being served in the council. In my council the presentation states it takes $130 per year to support one youth.

Dancin Fox

[WDL Mom]

Hi,

 

If I remember right... 2 years ago our FOS goal was $1200. Last year our FOS goal was $2200. Our pack actually contributed $1250 last year, with only 17% of the Pack participating. The presentation requested $130 per scout... I think this year it is $135.

 

Again, I think our parents feel that they did their fundraiser for the year with the popcorn sale... we had 90% participation for the sale.

 

Maybe I just have a sour taste in my mouth regarding FOS. Last year's presentation was a bit heavy handed and dragged on and on and on. It was done by a parent in our Pack who is also involved at the Council level.

 

So, again, do the popcorn sales and FOS combine to reach that magical $130 per scout number? Or is FOS calculated AFTER popcorn sales are taken into account?

 

Thanks for the explanations!

[Lisabob]

I really don't think that the success of the popcorn sale figures into this $130 estimate. If it did, the amount that is requested would differ widely from unit to unit and year to year. The fact that this number (or something very close to it) is quoted across so many different units lends credence to the notion that this is a national estimate with no regard to unit-level variables such as popcorn sales.

 

None the less I understand your point that people feel they have already contributed by supporting the popcorn sales.

[Jeffrey H]

None the less I understand your point that people feel they have already contributed by supporting the popcorn sales.

I agree with this sentiment.  FOS is optional and no one should feel guilty if they elect not to participate especially if they have worn their soles out selling popcorn.  Councils budgets depend on the revenue stream of FOS just like popcorn sales.  With that, we can expect the same fundraising campaigns every year.

We had one Cub Scout sell $803 of popcorn.  Our council's 40% cut is $321 of his sales.  This young man and his family contributed much more to our council from popcorn than I did through FOS alone.  As far as this family is concerned, this Cub Scout has paid his FOS of $120 plus an extra $201 bonus to the Council.  Now, our Council may not see it this way, but the family sure does. 

I give to FOS because I don't sell alot of Popcorn and I want to give at least something directly back to the Council. 

[Owl62]

I have never been anywhere that we were given a specific contribution amount, at least not that I have heard, but the past several years, they have been pushing automatic monthly contributions by pressuring people to sign pledge forms or through our wills to give all or parts of our estates to them.

 

Due to what I consider to the be the inconsiderate, aggressive and rude manner (my opinion - I think I am entitled to my opinion) of some FOS presentations, I no longer give ANY money to FOS. Period. No means no. (They have even tried having a nicer, kinder person with a more warm approach, usually someone who personally knows me, to try to get money out of me, that I should not let a perceived bad experience keep me from giving - the answer is still no). To some FOS presenters, "no" is simply and invitation to keep asking. "Maybe" is an invitation to keep asking, no means no. It has been suggested that becuase of this, I am selfish and that I am not a good and true Scouter. If that makes me a bad Scouter, then we are surely in a sad situation.

 

It appears that little or no consderation is given to timing, manner, venue, or the socioeconomic status of the target group of FOS presentations. The attitude appears to be, tough, give something else up and give.

 

My opinion is, a Court of Honor is not an appropriate place to give an FOS presentation unless the members of the unit decide that it is appropriate. I am considered a bad Scouter because of this opinion.

 

I believe that we should all be given the opportuntiy to give to FOS, with NO pressure or rude or belittling guilt trip tactics. But I also believe that the amount or form or our giving should be what we determine it to be, not what the BSA, local council, or FOS presenter determines it to be. Now they are even trying to get us to sign over all or parts of our estates to them in our wills. No means no. When are they going to learn that people give because they want to, if they can, not because of pressure. It has been suggested to me that there is no pressure, they are trying to inform and educate us.

 

I voluntarily give large amounts of resources to Scouting every year in the form of money, time, supplies, equipment, transportation - mostly to my unit or to other Scouting activies in which I participate in support of delivering the program to the youth. I have, on more than one ocassion helped pay for a Scout's summer camp, and for others' uniforms, etc. I want no badges or awards or other recognition for my volunteer service - I simply want to serve. I try to arrive early at events and help set-up, stay late and clean-up, do little (and sometimes no so little things to make activity site improvements, etc.) Again, to try to help deilver the program to the youth. Maybe since I am considered to be a bad Scouter, I should no longer do any of these other things and leave the program?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[FScouter]

Why do you keep calling yourself a bad Scouter?

[sst3rd]

Owl62,

 

I understand your frustration. I have long since made the decision to not support FOS (and the prior SME). Justify it anyway you like, my limited Scouting designated contributions go to the unit program.

Our Council has for years assigned FOS goals for the Troops and hung a chart with all of this info at every Roundtable. Gee, why the public show? Our Troop's Committee Chairperson and I (SM) would just laugh, usually in front of the DE who would always be stationed in front of this poster.

Our Committee does discuss FOS every year, and with the continued increasing pressure, we continue to concentrate on the Troop, it's programs and operations, only. We are families of limited resources, and our Scout dollars go to the unit.

At our December Roundtable. the DE required every units FOS representative's name, address, and phone number, so they could get the training info to them. Plus, the DE wanted the dates of everyone's Christmas dinners, banquets, and/or Court of Honors for the FOS presentations. Most units didn't give him this info. He wasn't very happy.

FOS will continue to be a non-issue for our Troop. Program for the Scouts comes first. Period.

 

sst3rd

[BrentAllen]

Am I visiting the Scouter forums? Wow - our Scouting world is a lot different here in Hightower Trail District, Atlanta Area Council.

Our District (volunteers, not Pros) has set our own FOS Community goal, which is higher than what Council had set for us. We have a Golden Eagle breakfast with a guest speaker, at one of the nicer Country Clubs in Atlanta. Last year we had the president of Chik-Fil-A, this year we have Jeff Foxworthy. Our goal last year was to raise $100,000 that morning, and I think we ended up around $114,000. Our goal is higher this year; we are adding a few more tables for an increase in attendance.

As a table host, my goal is to invite 6 to 8 people there who are capable and willing of making at least a $1,000 donation. This can be a single check, or spread out over 12 months. I make a $1,000 donation because I do see where it goes - we have fantastic camps, and a great program. I do it because I know this is the best program my son will ever participate in.

Nothing is free, and none of your small registration fee goes to your Council. Around here, a typical sports league will cost $100 and run for 3 months. Play a full year and it costs you $400 - which goes to cover the use of the gym/sports field, referees/umpires and other officials. Comparing that to Scouting, your FOS donation goes to maintain the Council properties and pays the staff. I would consider $400 a bargain for what my son and I get out of our Council!

Our Council is a great asset to our units. What a shame some of you are so jaded towards your Councils. If you don't support your Council, I don't see how you can complain later when they have to sell properties or reduce services. I guess I'm just fortunate to be where I am in the Scouting community.

For the record, I have made some FOS presentations to Packs - it isn't the easiest thing to do. Before you go busting the presenter's chops, hop up there and try it yourself.

 

[Eamonn]

I think we all will have to agree that money is required to run a Council.

If everyone stopped supporting the Council things might not run very well.

Running a Council shouldn't be that much different than running a family home. (OK, there are some things different!!)

Both Her Who Must Be Obeyed and I work. We do kinda count on the idea that both our jobs will be around for a while and that we are not going to do something silly and get fired.

We own several properties that are rented out.

When we look at what rent to charge, we look at what the expenses will be, that we end up paying (Taxes, maintenance, insurance and depreciation) I see this in the same light as the Council Camp. The people who use the camp should pay what it costs to run the camp.

We know how much money will be coming in to our house. We make our budget based on this amount.

It would be nice to have people to wait on us hand and foot, someone to cook and do all the cleaning. I'm sure I could get used to it. As it is the Lady who does the cleaning comes in twice a week for a couple of hours -Enough to keep things in order but not really clean. The reason we don't have all these staff is that we can't afford them.

All of our cars are getting old, but they look great once a month when I know that I don't have to mail a car payment. Sure I'd like a new car, but it's not in the budget.

I don't know about what is happening in other Councils? But it seems to me that in our Council we are trying to live beyond our means.

A little time back I asked people to list 3 services that they receive from their Council.

None of the lists were very impressive.

Later I asked where the value is.

Do we really feel that we receive over $100.00 worth of service?

Does the pack with 70 Cub Scouts really receive

over $8,000 worth?

Eamonn.

[John-in-KC]

BrentAllen,

 

I congratulate your District and Council for letting the volunteers buy into the FOS numbers.

 

Would that happen in every Council; FOS would be something better thought of.

 

As it is, the Family FOS Campaign in my neck of the woods is "Professional Grade."

[BrentAllen]

Eamonn,

Here in Georgia, there aren't too many camping locations large enough to handle a Pack our size. One source which can handle us is the State Parks, where you have to reserve (at least 6 months in advance to get the spots we need) and pay a non-refundable first-night deposit. You are looking at $40 for the weekend per family. Do 2 camping trips a year and you are at $80.

Compare that to going to one of our Council Reservations, which are essentially free. I see that as an $80 value per family right off the top. Now add in the services of our DE, staff to answer the phone at Program, coordinate training, file Tour permits, handle tickets for Scout Night at the Circus/Braves/Thrashers/Hawks, keep track of advancement, handle Summer camp requests, etc... yes, I see a lot of value for my money.

[theysawyoucomin']

Aren't the Scouter.com topics with the most replies the most fun things to discuss.

 

Anybody that gives time to the boys(not money to FOS)cannot be a bad Scouter. Period.

 

I'll agree that a Blue and Gold dinner is not the place to run an FOS pitch. The first time I saw that I did not like it. Let's remember a volunteer asked my DE to be there.

 

I think we'd all agree that it is in the presentation.

Some folks will give and some folks won't. Would parents come if we Scouters said. "Hey come to a parnets meeting and part with your cash".

So my first plea for help came from our DE at a B&G dinner.

 

I told my DE once that I did not want a patch for FOS, "why do that", I asked. The patches cost about a buck a piece and the Council's position is that people should be thanked. I agree. A patch is a permanent thank you for about a buck. If you know something permanent for less let me know.

 

I think when you do these there has to be a clear need that is shown.

 

I don't think $52 dollars a year for a year long program is a lot of money.

Let me clarify that $35 to register.$52 for fair share. $175 for camp. A couple bucks here and there for snow and do, den materials,etc.

 

There is no other year long program that is going to give you all that Scouting does for about a buck a day.

If there is please let me know, I'll bet it is subsidized by somebody.

 

To anybody that is mad at the SE's salary and you wish to still give but hate the SE, stipulate that your gift only go to Camp Wattamess(or your favorite). If you don't trust that it will, team up with a couple other people and buy a load of crushed stone for the camp driveway. Let the ranger know it's coming and pay the quarry direct. The ranger will love you. Rangers usaully have a wish list. pick something from there, supply it yourself. That way you will be sure it does not go to shrimp cocktails at executive meetings.

 

Anybody that brings a graph to a meeting to show a unit's FOS count has sucky people skills.