The girl scouts are modernizing to "become more relevant" should the BSA take some notes here?

[brianbuf]

This hit our local news tonight, and a search at this link below had the following story:

 

http://www.girlscouts.org/news/media...out_pledge.asp

 

From the October 11, 2006 edition of The Christian Science Monitor.

 

That must have been a tough cookie to swallow. The Girl Scouts recently discovered that it needs to be more relevant to today's girls. But true to the scout promise ("help people at all times"), the nearly century-old group is adjusting to the new times.

 

After more than two years of research and input from tens of thousands of scouts and nonscouts, volunteers and staff, Girl Scouts of the USA is undertaking its first overhaul in more than 30 years - and certainly its most wide-ranging....... (see link for more info).

 

 

Wow, the girl scouts have seen a decline in membership (see article) so they are doing something about it. Should BSA, with their decline in membership, investigate what they could do to be MORE RELEVANT?

[local1400]

Most kids today wouldnt join scouting even if every night was xbox night. You need to take care of the ones who are coming now. Of course you want new prospects but reality is few are interested these days. Maybe if the GSA improved then girls wouldnt want to join the BSA (sorry, call me old fashioned or chauvanistic but I believe Boy Scouts should be BOY Scouts!). Kids have a lot more choices these days and sadly Scouts is not high on their list. But you do raise an interesting question. What would you change?

[brianbuf]

Before a ton of posters start comparing the difference between GSA and BSA, hold your keyboard.

 

I am not saying they are the same.

 

I am simply saying this: Here is one youth organization, after realizing they are loosing members, decided to approach their problem with a 2 year study, realized they needed "to be more relevant" to the youth of today, and made some changes. Would the BSA benefit by learning from this organizations actions?

 

That is all. Don't read too much into it. Be very interesting article!

 

Perhaps there are ways to reverse the 10.9% single year drop in Venturing and other multi-year drops!

[John-in-KC]

First,

 

The link is dead. Whatever was at that page, GSUSA has pulled it!

 

The rest of this derives from your own quote: "...investigate what they could do to be MORE RELEVANT?"

 

Second... Please state, clearly, why you assess the Aims of Scouting to be ir-relevant:

 

Development of Moral strength and character

Development of Good citizenship

Development in physical, mental, and emotional fitness

 

Third, please state, clearly, why you assess the Methods of Boy Scouting to be ir-relevant:

Ideals.

Patrols.

Outdoor Programs.

Advancement.

Associations With Adults.

Personal Growth.

Leadership Development.

Uniform.

 

Fourth, please state, clearly, why you assess the Scout Oath, the Scout Law, the Scout Slogan, and the Scout Motto to be ir-relevant. I won't quote them here, I trust they are all written on your heart!

 

Fifth, please state, clearly, why you assess the advancement plan of Boy Scouting to be ir-relevant. You can find that in BSA Requirements or a Boy Scout Handbook.

 

- Here I WILL help you. IMO, Scouting has taken the skill and art of cooking to almost a "so-what/who cares." As a divorced father, I've found I've had to once again use skills I first learned over a campfire to affordably feed myself and my son. If we accept the premise that the advancement plan to Eagle contains a broad array of essential life skills, we've missed one at the "gut-check" level: Cooking. Its inclusion in the trail to First Class is pro forma compared to years past, as is its inclusion in the Camping Merit Badge.

 

BTW, if you want to be an agent of change, what are you doing to get yourself involved in District, Council, Regional or National leadership? I have given my feedback, more than once, to the professional and senior volunteer staff I have access to.

 

Food for thought.

 

YIS(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

[Eagledad]

The Girls Scouts have been changing their program for over 25 years trying to stop the bleeding. Values are one of those things that took a hit. Just read the changes in their promise. It now starts out: On my honor I will "try:". I will try? That is no minor change.

 

And, while you are comparing changing programs, go take a look at the Canadian Scouts program. It made huge changes in the 90's, some of which you have been suggesting. Now they are struggling and on the verge of folding.

 

Oh, and go look at the Campfire Kids. They made huge changes to their program as well including some political correctness changes and the big one, excepting boys. Has that helped their declining numbers? No, not really.

 

As I said before, declining numbers in a long standing organization are usually caused by something much deeper than uniforms. The Canadian Scouts, Girl Scouts and Campfire Kids are all programs that have made major changes in their programs and struggled ever since. And while there are many contributors to their problems, Canadian Scouts major changes werent reacting to declining numbers. They were reacting to a political environment changes in the country at the time. But they are seeing now that it is one thing to say that morality is not that important to raising moral kids, it is something different when you have to trust your kids to be alone with adults who really believe such that.

 

This is a tough environment for youth programs who base their philosophy on values. But it gets worse when those programs choose to change into just outdoor camping programs. Say what you want, you know what you get with the BSA. The other organizations are finding that parents want a little more than just an outdoor experience for their kids.

 

Oh, just a little side information, the creation of the Tiger program in the early 80s was a reaction to the Campfire Girls changing their program to recruit boys in the first grade. I still wonder if both programs regret those changes.

 

If you really want to take a lead on finding why the numbers are declining Brian, then you have to ignore your own prejudice, beliefs and opinions and start looking at real facts at where the numbers make the big drops. Let me give you a place to start. Tigers, Webelos and first year Boy Scouts.

 

If you want to use an example of how well research like the Girls Scouts just performed really works, look at our own Tiger program. The BSA have been performing the same kind of reseach for years trying to find a fix to the Tiger numbers problem. Since I have been a leader in the early 90s, the BSA has made several significant changes to the Tiger program, and the changes have not done a thing. I think I know why, but my point is I think the Girls Scouts are not going to improve their numbers because they aren't willing to except the real answers.

 

Oh, and by the way, the Tigers changed their uniform last year. We have to wait to see the data, but do you think that will make the difference? Personally I dont think so. The real question is how will it affect the Webelos program?

 

You started off on the wrong foot with this group Brian because there are some folks here that know what they are talking about. When you want to get serious about stopping the declining numbers, some folks will be glad to help.

 

Barry

 

[ScoutNut]

Just as BSA has ALWAYS changed to keep up with the times, so has GSUSA. As they like to say, it is a Scout MOVEMENT, so it should move. Unfortunately, unlike BSA, GSUSA tends to change rather more often, & without sufficient thought in some cases.

 

After their last debacle, a few years ago, & with the financial troubles of many of their councils, they decided maybe they needed some major changes. Only time will tell if these changes are good or bad.

 

Fortunately, like BSA, if the adults in the trenches do a good job with the kids in their charge, that is what truly counts. (This message has been edited by a staff member.)

[emb021]

Yawn. Old news.

 

The GSUSA has been making changes, not all have been good. Someone mentioned their changes in their Oath. I can tell you they've been critized by scout leaders in other countries for doing this.

 

Their only change now is the split the Senior Girl Scouts in half, with the 16/17 year olds now "Girl Scout Ambassadors".

 

About 3-4 years ago, they rolled out "Studio 2B", which seems just a copy of the BSA's Explorer program from the 70s & 80s. I've heard NOTHING good about this program, and many girls didn't want it to replace the Junior/Senior programs (it was never clear if it was a separate program or a replacement program). Its also not clear with the new changes if Studio 2B will continue.

 

I also find it interesting that many girls who want to do 'scouting stuff' seem to come over to Venturing. I guess they aren't finding scouting in the Girl Scouts.

 

BTW, the BSA ALSO tried to be 'relavent'. This was back in the early 70s when they rolled out the 'urban emphasis' scouting changes. It was a disaster!!! Numbers dropped, etc. Thanks to the work of people like Green Bar Bill, who brough back traditional scouting via "ALL OUT FOR SCOUTING" and similiar programs and changes, such as a new Handbook, most of the program changes were gotten rid of by the late 70s/early 80s, tho it wasn't until the late 80s that we got rid of the last few ones. Scouters STILL take about this!

 

Overseas, the British Scout Association made radical changes in the 70s (the so-called "Advanced Party Report"). This lead to many scouters leaving and forming the B-P Scout Association in that country in many others, to remain true to the scouting program that B-P created.

 

 

[Beavah]

Yah, in 30+ years I've lost track of da number of "changes to be more relevant/exciting/etc." GSUSA has made to its program. Seems like they rewrite the thing from scratch every 5-7 years.

 

I don't know as that has caused their decline, so much as hastened it. In each case they've confused or lost some of their core constituency without gainin' anybody. That's the risk of such things, eh?

[emb021]

"Seems like they rewrite the thing from scratch every 5-7 years."

 

Beavah makes a good point about GSUSA.

 

Despite the changes over the years (yes, they have occured), Eagle Scout has remainded as the highest Boy Scout award.

 

Whereas the Girl Scouts have renamed their highest award 4-5 times. Today its the Gold Award, but that's only been so since the, what, 80s?

 

[SWScouter]

Brian, go to the Girls Scouts forum at scouter.com, there was a thread about some of these changes a few months ago. From what I remember, some of the changes were to realign/combine councils and the changes/naming for the cadet to senior girl scouts. Scoutnut mentioned that. But the big change that is going to really help the GSUSA is that they are updating their uniforms so that high-school aged girls can have neckers! I think you should really be pleased about that.

 

SWScouter

[epalmer84]

I think this is the article in question:

http://www.girlscouts.org/news/media_coverage/a_new_girl_scout_pledge.asp

 

The GSUSA award was Golden Eaglet until 1940, Curved Bar Award until 1963, First Class Award until 1980 and is now the Gold Award.

 

Since the sweeping changes of the Improved Scouting Program in 1972 proved so unpopular, National seems to be keeping the changes more incremental. There have been several changes in the last few decades to update the program: WoodBadge for the 21st Century, Tiger Cubs, Scouting and Soccer, Venture patrol, Venturing and so forth.

 

Ed

 

BTW: I believe the Tiger Cubs went to the blue uniform in 2001. As I understand it, Tiger Cubs were something of an experiment at the time and treated as somewhat apart from the pack. Once accepted, they were fully integrated into the pack.

[John-in-KC]

Thanks to Ed for finding the correct url!!!

 

Let's parse that article a bit:

 

"These include overscheduling; bullying, especially over the Internet and via cellphone text-messaging; "cutting" (self-mutilation), and teen pregnancy. Meanwhile, more than 40 percent of girls aren't raising their hands in class because they're afraid of being labeled smart - and being bullied for that."

 

Family Life Merit Badge...EAGLE REQUIRED, see Requirement 6b

Personal Fitness Merit Badge...EAGLE REQUIRED, see Requirements 1, 2 e-f, 3 h-k,

Personal Management Merit Badge...EAGLE REQUIRED, see Requirement 8

SCOUT RANK, Requirement 9, pamphlet exercises REQUIRED

Could and should we address some of the more recent challenges? Probably. Even so, THE FRAMEWORK EXISTS.

 

COMPUTERS MB, Requirement 1

SCHOLARSHIP MB, entire package

 

"The trick for scout leaders is to achieve an organizational nimbleness that can adjust to a new challenge such as cyberbullying, while recognizing that many harmful fads have their roots in basic age-old problems, such as peer pressure and low self-esteem. Activities that build confidence and teach life skills and leadership - the core of girl scouting - will never lack relevance.

 

(snip)

 

"But by greatly consolidating its organizational structure, the scouts should be able to free up resources and time so it can move more quickly and uniformly. And by building up its research institute into the nation's top information source on girls generally, it can better track girls' needs, and better measure and adjust scout programs.

 

"Volunteer adults will undergo training that includes how to spot signs of bullying and how to address issues such as cutting without "outing" anyone in a group setting. The entire curriculum is being rewritten to make greater room for topics such as the ethical use of technology - online chat etiquette, for example, or cellphone photo use."

 

Gee, doesn't this sound like ADULT YOUTH PROTECTION???, not to mention elements existing in our current program?

 

Doesn't this also sound like Council Consolidation, which we went through on the order of 30 years ago?

 

Let's look at some Venturing requirements for a moment, just to see where they are with the older teen and transitioning young adult:

http://usscouts.org/advance/venturing/GoldAward.html

 

Look at personal growth, requirement 4 for a moment:

"The candidate must, in consultation with the crew Advisor or a member of the crew committee, set one personal growth goal related to each of the following areas: citizenship, leadership, service to others, community/family, outdoor experience, and total fitness."

 

Brian, I've only been on the adult side of Scouting for a few years, but I've learned there are a huge number of tools in the toolbox, waiting to be used by the enterprising, caring, committed leader. May I suggest you spend some time looking at what's in the toolbox rather than jumping to a conclusion?(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

[ScoutNut]

"But the big change that is going to really help the GSUSA is that they are updating their uniforms so that high-school aged girls can have neckers! I think you should really be pleased about that."

 

ROFLMBO!!!!!!!!

 

Thanks so much SW, I had completely forgotten about that!

 

John you are right about the council consolidation. Because of financialy troubled councils (not necessarily low membership numbers) GSUSA redrew its council boundaries based on population, median income & a few other criteria. They went from 310 to 109 HUGE councils.

 

[brianbuf]

John in KC..

What conclussions am I jumping to? Just posted that on the local news last night there was a story about the G. Scouts changing their program. So I wen to their web site and they said that due to dropping enrollment they spent 2 years studing their program and changed it to "be relevant" to the girls they were serving. Then I simply ask if the BSA could learn something.

 

(This message has been edited by a staff member.)

[John-in-KC]

"Should BSA, with their decline in membership, investigate what they could do to be MORE RELEVANT?"

 

Ok, I'll answer you: NO. The BSA program has elements which address the issues GSUSA raises. (This message has been edited by a staff member.)