Fair Share - units paying their own way

[scoutldr]

As unit level scouters, your voice and vote is your COR. How many of your CORs attend monthly District Committee and Council Executive Board meetings?

[Eamonn]

While COR's are invited to attend the Council Annual meeting and vote for the incoming Executive Board, they have no vote after that.

They are of course welcome to attend the District Committee meeting. In theory the District Chairman represents them at the Board meetings.

Of course how the District Chair presents their case is something else.

While I'm 100% for having people from the community and business world sit on our boards, we do seem to (At least in our Council)have added these people and taken away the people who know what the program is and how it works.

Last year when we faced ending the year $250,000 in the hole, some of us seen $250,000 as being a lot of money, trying to explain this to Company Executives who spend that much on entertaining can be a hard job.

Also when it comes to salary, they earn the big bucks, so when they heard that someone is a Scout Executive they think he /she is entitled to similar compensation.

But when you look at the responsibilities of a company executive, who has to answer to the share holders and is responsible for a lot more money and has a lot of people are dependent on the company for their livelihood and the responsibility of a Scout Executive? I think the produce manager of our local store has more responsibility and earns a lot less than half.

We have in the past fired a Scout Executive. Believe me it doesn't sit well with the powers that be, the Council was placed on the conditional/ provisional charter list for a year.

We have very little say in how much a Scout Executive will earn, that scale is set by National.

A new DE starts out at over $35,000 a new teacher in our school district starts out at $22,000.

Something just isn't right. Worse still is the fact that we just can't afford it and these salaries are hurting the program and the kids we serve.

Eamonn.

[theysawyoucomin']

I am also in an upstate NY council.

 

FS was proposed at a dollar a week. 52$ a year. About $4.50./

month. We are going to the parents with this now.

 

Eamon,

I agree $60 a year is nothing considering my son's ROE.

 

National prohibited our Council from doing that. National's reply was, "It costs $11 in Iowa to be a Scout , it will cost $11 in your council to be a Scout. You get your council funds how ever you must but NO requirement shall be made".

 

You seemed all for it in your early post(12/1) but then posted something different the next day.

 

In 2004 our troop gave five dollars to FOS. Surely the services a council provides are worth more than 22 cents per boy.

 

It seems as though many of you can't stand your council folks.

 

My experience is 180 degrees from that. Unless I'm drinking the kool aid I am pleased with the DE and pleased with how our council works.

 

Did you know that the top salaries from you Council are available on IRS form 990?

 

We plan to see what we get from the parents and then maybe hold a dinner for the balnce but we are going to give it a try.

 

As an active volunteer that spends many hours busting my tail for their kids enjoyment I am hoping the parents feel that $52 per year is not a large amount.

 

Heck my vacation week is spent at summer camp watching their boys, I hope they support the council.

 

Imagine what summer camp would cost if it wasn't done in a BSA camp. Sailing, boating and all the rest plus a trusted hometown adult looking after them. In a private camp it would cost $700 t0 take sailing lesson plus you strangers for camp staff.

 

Why should big business fot the bill for our boys to have fun?

Have we all become that brainwashed by the "entitlement generation"?

 

a pack of highly taxed Marlboro 100's per month is a deal for Scouting.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[theysawyoucomin']

I am also in an upstate NY council.

 

FS was proposed at a dollar a week. 52$ a year. About $4.50./

month. We are going to the parents with this now.

 

Eamon,

I agree $60 a year is nothing considering my son's ROE.

 

National prohibited our Council from doing that. National's reply was, "It costs $11 in Iowa to be a Scout , it will cost $11 in your council to be a Scout. You get your council funds how ever you must but NO requirement shall be made".

 

You seemed all for it in your early post(12/1) but then posted something different the next day.

 

In 2004 our troop gave five dollars to FOS. Surely the services a council provides are worth more than 22 cents per boy.

 

It seems as though many of you can't stand your council folks.

 

My experience is 180 degrees from that. Unless I'm drinking the kool aid I am pleased with the DE and pleased with how our council works.

 

Did you know that the top salaries from you Council are available on IRS form 990?

 

We plan to see what we get from the parents and then maybe hold a dinner for the balnce but we are going to give it a try.

 

As an active volunteer that spends many hours busting my tail for their kids enjoyment I am hoping the parents feel that $52 per year is not a large amount.

 

Heck my vacation week is spent at summer camp watching their boys, I hope they support the council.

 

Imagine what summer camp would cost if it wasn't done in a BSA camp. Sailing, boating and all the rest plus a trusted hometown adult looking after them. In a private camp it would cost $700 t0 take sailing lesson plus you strangers for camp staff.

 

Why should big business fot the bill for our boys to have fun?

Have we all become that brainwashed by the "entitlement generation"?

 

a pack of highly taxed Marlboro 100's per month is a deal for Scouting.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Lisabob]

I'm not against a council getting a little creative or couching it's requests in a way that suggests we should all pay for the services we receive. I know that when boys pay national dues, the council gets zippo from it and that's a problem to be sure. I also know that FOS around here is typically not well received.

 

Part of the problem might be that FOS appeals are often made in ineffective ways. Example: in the Cub Pack that my son was in, almost half of the boys were receiving free and reduced lunches, an indication of difficult financial circumstances. FOS presentations in our district are typically held either in January (right after Christmas when families' budgets are often not in great shape) or at Blue & Gold in February. B&G seems to be a bad time in all honesty because people don't pay attention to the presenter. But the presentations themselves are iffy and tend to focus on larger donations - you can't go to a group of people, half of whom are struggling to get their kids fed, and ask them to donate a whole lot of money. If they asked each family to give $5 or $10 or $20 they'd probably get a reasonable response. Instead they typically ask for $50 or more. Yes, of course people CAN give less but when you start by framing the request for higher amounts a lot of people will just tune you out.

 

Then there's the problem that many packs and troops already charge dues and fees well above what national dues require. Around here most charge between $30-$60 in dues. Plus fees for activities on a monthly basis. Parents who are struggling financially see these FOS goals of an additional $50+ as just another burden.

 

Of course I agree that scouting is still a bargain even at a couple hundred dollars a year.

 

But if I've got two, three, four kids and I'm trying to figure out what I can afford, FOS might be pretty low on my list. By the way while I understand the comparison to the cost of sports leagues, many of the families with boys in CUB scouting around here do NOT have their children in other extra curricular activities such as soccer, baseball, football, etc. - they can't afford them. (And I've noticed that most of these families drop out when it comes time to join boy scouts, which is more expensive due to gear requirements, etc. - even though many troops do fundraisers to help boys pay their way)

 

My point isn't to bash FOS, although I think it could be more effectively presented in many cases. My point is that we need to get past hitting up the same people for money at every turn or what we get in the end is "donor fatigue" and a perception that we're forever fundraising and stretching our own best supporters (members) too thin. To that extent, I agree with Eamonn that councils need to work on developing community relationships in order to help with fundraising efforts.

 

 

[scoutingagain]

"While COR's are invited to attend the Council Annual meeting and vote for the incoming Executive Board, they have no vote after that. "

 

And just who proposes the slate of those nominated to be on the Exec. Board?

 

SA

[Eamonn]

"And just who proposes the slate of those nominated to be on the Exec. Board? "

This is done by the Council Nominating Chairman.

 

Eamonn

 

[CNYScouter]

Our councils newsletter came yesterday with more details on this program.

 

They are asking for $50 per Scout.

This can be raised by FOS (this includes any fundraising) or using the units 30% commission on popcorn (and council would get their 30% still).

 

Some of the incentives if you meet this goal are:

1) No National registration fee.

2) No Insurance fee.

3) Depending on the size of the unit you will receive credit at the Scout Store.

This starts with small units (under 20) receiving $50.

 

Some of the things that came out about this program were:

 

The $50 per Scout figure was derived from the councils budget. They are asking the units (volunteers and parents) to come up with (25%) of next years operating budget.

 

Over half of the councils units raise less than $30 per scout and 40% of the councils units do not participate in Popcorn sales and FOS.

 

They did a study about FOS donations.

Donations were pretty even across the council for income areas.

The higher income areas in the council made the same donation amounts as lower income areas and in a few places the lower income areas out paced the higher income areas.

 

We have seen the loss of community support as many of the large employers (and BSA supporters) have left the area or gone out of business.

The biggest employer in the area, a major university, has pulled its support and banned the BSA from its campus and the use of its facilities.

The contributions from the United Way now only make up about 3% of our budget as some of the larger companies no longer support the BSA due to its discrimination policy.

 

I am not sure what we are going to do as a council.

The money to operate has got to come from some where.

 

 

[scoutingagain]

"This is done by the Council Nominating Chairman."

 

So how does one become the Council Nominating Chairman?

 

Let me guess, the Council Nominating Chairman is named by the Exec. Board that he nominates or he is named(or at least recommended) by the Council Exec.

 

My point being is that the BSA business organization seems to be run in a manner that could be used as a poster definition of "The good ole boy network."

 

Just how far would a community leader/business executive, concerned about local scouting, get towards being nominated to be on the Exec. Board campaigning on a platform of fiscal responsibility, including taking a close look at professional staffing and professional salaries?

 

SA

 

[pmickle1027]

" A Scout is Thrifty, a scout works to pay his way and to help others". A scout should work to help the council. Selling $150.00 worth of popcorn per boy is not a problem. Our Troop is not in a rich area yet each year we seem to make this goal, not to mention each boy working fund raisers to pay for their own reregistration. Our boys also work to pay for a third of scout camp. Where would we go to summer camp if the council folds?

[CNYScouter]

I am hoping they spend some time discussing this at a Roundtable soon as I think this is going to be a noghtmare to administer and cause a great number of parents not to partisipate.

 

My sons and I just got back from attending a Pistol Shooting Crew meeting. For the boys to shootthey are asking that they fill out a Venturing App and be put on the roster (insurance reasons they're saying).

 

I now have 1 son in a Troop, Crew and Ship and the other in the Ship and the Shooting Crew. There is a young lady in the Ship that is in this Shooting Crew and another Crew that Shoots Air Rifles.

In this program they are asking units for $50 per Scout in the Unit.

I see no provisions in this for Scouts like this. If I am reading the program details right this will mean I need to come up with $250 for my 2 sons to be in these programs.

 

By next Sept. when my youngest starts school and my daughter turns 14 I could have 4 kids in a BSA program.

I see no provisions in the program for families having multiple kids.

If my daughter registers with the Ship and Crew and the youngest in this will go up to $400 before registration, dues, trips or equiment.

 

I am all for paying our fair share but I have to think there may be a better way to accomplish this.

 

 

 

 

[theysawyoucomin']

CNY,

Nobody from our council is asking for multiple donations like that.

 

I would think if you have three Scouting children AND YOU WERE ABLE the Council is asking $156.

 

If you are not able, which is ok, then the Council is asking for whatever you see fit. They would accept $10 per child or even $2. The are asking us to help however we can.

 

Whatever we give, no one is going to ask us idividually what our contribution is, no one is going to deny our kids anything.

 

I will be sure to let all my friends know that the United Way in my liberal area is about $230k shy of what the U.W. gives to similar sized councils across the nation.

 

If we are not going to compromise on our policies than we are going to have to pay our own way.

 

I'm all for paying our own way.

[theysawyoucomin']

CNY,

Nobody from our council is asking for multiple donations like that.

 

I would think if you have three Scouting children AND YOU WERE ABLE the Council is asking $156.

 

If you are not able, which is ok, then the Council is asking for whatever you see fit. They would accept $10 per child or even $2. The are asking us to help however we can.

 

Whatever we give, no one is going to ask us idividually what our contribution is, no one is going to deny our kids anything.

 

I will be sure to let all my friends know that the United Way in my liberal area is about $230k shy of what the U.W. gives to similar sized councils across the nation.

 

If we are not going to compromise on our policies than we are going to have to pay our own way.

 

I'm all for paying our own way.

[scoutldr]

"If you are not able, which is ok, then the Council is asking for whatever you see fit. They would accept $10 per child or even $2. The are asking us to help however we can."

 

That pretty much describes the current FOS program, doesn't it? The FOS presenter comes in and says "it takes $126 a year per boy to provide scouting" and then accepts whatever is written on the pledge cards....a lot of parents throw in a 5 or 10 dollar bill and their conscience is clear, regardless of their ability to pay.

 

 

[theysawyoucomin']

Agreed Scoutldr,

 

However in my Disrict, there is a heighten sense of urgency. We are telling people that the status quo has to change.

 

Maybe the next step is to tell people that it is $65 ($11 for national and $53 for Council) to join Scouts.

Sure would lower my stress level and time we've spent in TC meetings. Add another $35 for the Troop and we're at $100. Still a tremendous ROE.

 

I think what we're hearing is, if your family income is $90k(nurse at $50k and Police officer at $40k) and you have every electronic gizmo, maybe go on a cruise every other year, that maybe you need to rethink how much Scouting really costs. Many people aren't making that I know, but if you are spending $20-$30 bucks a month on cable then $4.50 for Scouting is not a large amount.If someone cannot spare a buck a week odds are that family is the 1 in 12 that my council gives a campership to.

I am going to do what I can to help that kid go to camp.

 

I know actual incomes and mileage may vary.