Fair Share - units paying their own way

[CNYScouter]

I saw a posting on our councils list-server that said that due to the councils serious financial difficulties there is a new Fair Share concept being presented based on that Scouting has traditionally encouraged our youth to learn to 'pay their own way'.

 

Example of how Fair Share would work:

 

Pack ## recharters with 50 members

 

50 members times $50 = $2,500

 

Pack ## holds a Friends of Scouting presentation at their Blue and Gold at which 25 families give a total of $1,250 which is half of their unit objective.

 

The balance of $1,250 can be made up through the annual Popcorn Sale. Pack ##'s goal for the sale would then be $4,166 in gross sales assuming a 30% net to the pack. This would translate into an average of $84 in sales needed per member. While the pack would not receive commissions for this portion of their sale, they would receive commissions for anything beyond this and would have achieved their $50 per member in support of the council.

 

At Recharter time the council will wave the $10 per youth member registration fee and the $1 per member insurance fee and places an additional $150 in credit in that units account at the Scout Service Center/Trading post. This would represent a $700 return to that unit. All the unit would have to pay is $20 national charter fee, leader fees and Boys Life fees.

 

The posting said that this is an effort by our professional and volunteer leadership to encourage support for our council and at the same time provide a meaningful recognition and thank you to the units by freeing up funds normally spent for rechartering.

 

From the posting it doesnt look like this is mandatory (yet) as each unit will need to complete a commitment form.

I dont know much of the details , such if $50 per Scout is standard and there will be more information coming out about this in January.

 

 

Are there any other councils doing this or anything similar?

 

Has anyone participated in a program like this?

Is it effective and is the advantage of this program worth participating in?

 

[stevejb]

I think it is fine for families who can afford to do it. But if they make it mandatory in the future I could see it hurting Scouting by forcing families who cannot afford it to take their sons out of the program. Also, If the councils want to put such a financial "burden" on the families will the parents who volunteer their time receive compensation? Many families already put a lot of time and effort in Scouting that they do not receive payment for. I would like to see councils look to other places then the families to pay their costs. Scouting currently has a bad enough rep out there, we don't need to add "high cost" to it.

 

Oh, by the way, I don't think popcorn sales should be a mandatory fundraiser that troops have to do. I have some hard feelings about these sales so don't get me started on them.

 

Steve B

Scoutmaster, Troop 68, CMC

[MarkS]

Our council uses FoS to pay for local programs and activities, scholarships, uniforms and fees for special needs youths, service centers/scout shops, insurance, professional staff, camping facilities available and properties maintenance, to subsidize the cost of summer camp and high-adventure events, advancement programs, hiking-trails maintenance, and leadership training including development, literature, and distribution.

 

Our council doesn't require units to meet a donation goal but they do assertively promote FoS in each unit.

 

There is no way the "Fair Share" program described herein teaches financial responsibility to the Scouts. They are too far removed from the benefits it might produce for their unit. I don't buy the story that this program is intended to teach the boys responsibility. It sounds like your council is trying to delegate the work necessary to have a successful fundraising campaign from their professionals to unit leaders. Sure they can delegate the authority do the work necessary to raise the money their council needs, but they can't delegate the responsibility. It's their job, not the boys.

 

Boys need to see direct impact as a result of their fundraising efforts to recognize the benefit. Perhaps the older boys recognize the fact that something like "Fair Share" benefits summer camp, but not the younger boys and certainly not the cub aged boys. Plus, I'm sure units would rather have the $700 in cash than in a scout shop account.

 

Our unit raises money for itself through BBQ fundraisers, popcorn sales, and dues collection. Dues are collected every meeting. In return the troop pays entirely for registration fees (boys and adults) and Boy's Life, program activities, monthly outings (except food expenses) and provides a significant discount on summer camp and high-adventure activities.

 

With our method, the boys work, they raise the money, they use the money. With "Fair Share" the boys' parents write a check, give it to the unit, and the boys get a uniform at the scout shop wondering why they just don't pay for it at the shop.

 

"Fair Share" looks like a bad idea.(This message has been edited by MarkS)

[resqman]

Why does everyone always say that scouting is expensive?

 

Do the uniforms cost a lot? They are less than my sons sports team uniforms and are worn more often and for longer periods of time.

 

Does it cost a lot to join? In most instances less than $50 a year. Most recreational level sports teams are more than $50 per season which usually only lasts a few months. Most scout groups have fund raisers where the boys can raise some or all of the money relieveing the burden from the family.

 

Please stop spreading the falacy that scouting is expensive. Teach, explain, and preach the truth that scouting costs less than any other activity and help change the world.

 

How about the activities? Most venues give discounts to groups and/or the Boy Scouts so it is less than if the boy and family did the activity on their own.

 

How about the transportation costs? Typically the costs are shared amongst all the participants, covered by the driver, or paid from troop funds. All of which are less than if paid directly by a boy or his family.

 

How about the lodging costs? While personal gear can run in the hundreds or thousands, many troops have loaner gear for first timers and if you amortize the cost of the camping gear off the time it is used, still cheaper than hotels.

 

How about the time spent involved in scouting activities? One night a week and one weekend a month. Recreational sport teams practice minimum one night a week and an hour or so game on the weekend. Higher level teams practice 3-4 nights a week and a game every weekend.

 

My son is involved in a travel sports team. The team plays two seasons outdoors, fall and spring. They then play a short season indoors between the fall and spring. Each season has roughly 10-12 games. All games are within a 3 hour driving radius. So that means that as many as 8 out of the 12 games we drive 3 hours one way for a 75 minute game and drive 3 hours back. If the game is an early morning game then we have to drive the night before and get a hotel room. Be sure to add in food costs on such trips. Oh and not lets forget the fees to the coach and the club of $150 a month. And then there are the 6 or 8 weekends of tournaments. Where the entire family travels as far as 7 hour drive, gets a hotel room for the two nights, food for everyone for a weekend, fuel and car expenses, T-shirts at the event, etc. The actual fee to participate in the tournament usually runs about $50 per boy but that is taken from the $150 a month dues. The player gets to participate in the activity while the rest of watch from the sidelines. The family is there but not activiely participating.

 

We spend about $3500-$5000 a year on one son to play sports. Yes, it is on a nationaly ranked team. Yes he has gotten some benefit beside running up and down the field. Has he gotten life skills, developed higher morals, developed a sense of duty to the community from playing sports? No. Has he learned leadership and working with other skills. Yes, but to a much lesser degree than those involved in scouts. Can a youth play sports for much less money than we spend? Certainly!

 

Scouting is only expensive when compared to sitting at home watching TV. Compared to any other regular activity that a boy or family chooss to participate in, it is the most cost effective program offering a wide divesity of activities, travel, exploration, and growth opportunities.

 

I reject the notion that scouting is expensive. Scouting offers support to families on limited incomes. Do sports teams provide reduced cost admission, free or reduced cost uniforms, and other financial incentives to grow its membership?

[Beavah]

Yah, that's a new one, eh?

 

No taxation without representation. If da execs want to put a substantial per-youth or per-family fee on scoutin', then they durn well better give the families a real say in how the money is spent. None of this Chicago council nonsense. None of this "we don't do service, we only do program growth" balderdash.

 

Might be a good thing. Make it a real charge, and then make those paid responsible for providin' real service. Fire anybody not part of direct service to kids.

 

My guess is that Fair Share will never be implemented because most of us will expect it to come with Fair Oversight and Real Accountability.

 

 

 

[CalicoPenn]

Sounds like an accounting nightmare waiting to happen. One can only hope a number of the units and/or their Chartering Organizations get together and tell Council to go scratch. This is nothing more than Council-level dues to families couched in "fair share" terms. What will the Council do if units refuse to play along by not participating in FOS or Popcorn Sales, and just send in their regular dues just like normal? What's next, going to each Chartering Organization and charging them a per-head count for the number of people registered?

 

Calico(This message has been edited by CalicoPenn)

[FScouter]

"Why does everyone always say that scouting is expensive?"

 

Anytime the price of anything goes up a nickel, you will hear all kinds of bellyaching about how we can't afford it or its too much to pay or something else is cheaper, or somebody's wallet is being lined with my nickel. Scouting is no different. Witness the complaints already posted here.

 

Remember awhile back when the annual fee went from $7 to $10? You'd have thought $3 was going to drive families into poverty so the evil professionals could drive Rolls Royces instead of Mercedes Benz. The squealing of stuck pigs was deafening.

 

Scouting is heavily subsidized by corporate donations, and rich philanthopist donations. Sorry, but those rich guys that love Scouting are dying off, and the new "me" generation isn't so generous. I've often thought the annual $10 registration fee is just a formality. It ought to go to at least $50. Still a bargin.

 

 

[nldscout]

I am also in CNY's council. We have had many discussions about this and I will tell you it is cropping up in councils all over. So look for more to do it.

 

Look at it from a councils perspective. Out of the 10 dollars registration the council keeps 0.00. It all goes to national. So they need to raise money somehow to provide program support that we all love to hate.

[CNYScouter]

From our list-server today:

 

Participation is voluntary... this program has been used in other councils to not only raise funds for council services but also to raise the awareness of volunteers, parents and the community at large. By planning a sound popcorn sale a Pack, Troop or Crew can fairly painlessly achieve their 'fair share'. Ideally a unit will average or exceed the $50 just in FOS but we know that some families can't afford to participate and others may give way beyond the $50 because they have the resources, ability and interest. We count on that. No child will be turned away for an inability to pay and no unit will be denied services because they don't participate.

 

One of the reasons given as why our council is in the financial dilemma it is was due to the amount of units that did not participate in Popcorn or FOS.

 

If these units are not participating in Popcorn or FOS I dont see them volunteering to participate in the Fair Share program.

 

Both troops we were in had 20%-30% of their rosters made up from Scouts who very rarely attended anything.

Most of these were older Scouts whose parents kept them in the Troop hoping the might make Eagle someday.

 

I dont see these Troops keeping these kids on the charter or participating in the program if they needed to raise $ per Scout.

 

As a Sea Scout Ship (or a Venturing Crew) I dont see there being much incentive to participating.

I would much rather have the money in the Ships account to use as needed than to have tied up at the Scout Store (which we dont use that much).

 

When my son was in Cubs we made it known to every parent what it cost to have a boy is Scouts (for the Pack and the council) and how much popcorn that they needed to sell to cover this amount. It was not mandatory to sell and as a whole the Pack covered the amount.

 

If this goes anything like the mandatory training requirements it wont be much of a program.

 

 

 

[Eamonn]

I think $60.00 a year per family sounds like a good deal. $50.00 Going to the Council and $10.00 going to National.

I think the only way it would work would be if it was mandatory.

I'd love to see the day when the Council News Sheet is about Scouts and Scouting and not about money.

Boy Oh Boy!! Can you imagine not having to hear the FOS presentations and not being embarrassed when the unit popcorn sales fall short!!

I don't think we need a complicated formula.

If units want to sell Popcorn let them and let them keep the cash -All of it!!

If units want to ask the parents for the cash let them and if they get more than the needed $60.00 per family let them keep that too!!

How the money is raised is really of no concern as long as it gets to where it is supposed to be.

As things are now Councils are going into the red. The main reason is because of poor budgeting. Scout Executives tend to be overly optimistic about how much money will come in. They set unrealistic goals for Districts and seem very surprised when the money doesn't come rolling in. Sadly when they wrote the budget they wrote it in the expectation that the money would be there.

How much better it would be for all of us if we all knew that the Council had x amount of families and this times $50.00 and the income from grants, foundations and the like was the income.

Sadly it just wouldn't work!!

Our Council claims to have 10,600 members. Over half of these are in LFL and these members don't participate in FOS or popcorn. Most of the parents don't even know that their kid is in the program! (Most of it is done in school) So asking them for money isn't going to do much good. 5,000 members at $50.00 would only bring in $250,000. Last year the budget was over $1.3 million.

resqman

While I don't begrudge the money I spent on Scouting.

I know for a fact that last year we as a family spent twice the amount you state you spent on your son in a sports team.

Scouting can be a very expensive pass time.

Look at the cost of the next world jamboree!!

Worse still try starting a new Sea Scout Ship!!

Of course we didn't have to participate in all that we did, we don't have to do anything, but then again your son doesn't have to play the sport!! I feel blessed that I can afford it. Some of my pals spend more on a weeks hunt that I spent on Scouting. It's their money and I'm happy for them. Some parents have a hard time just keeping shoes on the feet of their kids.

Eamonn.

[ScoutNut]

This sounds like an overblown, unnecessary accounting nightmare (for both sides) to me too.

 

Why not simply give each unit a popcorn goal to aim for & give them an incentive if they reach it?

 

The same thing could be done with FOS donations.

 

This is what our council does. If your popcorn goal is reached you get an extra 3% commission. If your FOS goal is reached you get free rank patches.

 

No muss - no fuss.

 

This whole Fair Share thing is not mandatory so why force everyone to jump thru accounting hoops to figure out what's going on.

 

I have a feeling that this is tied into the new Centennial Quality Award program. Part of that is to assure that all councils are financially stable.

 

 

[Beavah]

One of the reasons given as why our council is in the financial dilemma it is was due to the amount of units that did not participate in Popcorn or FOS.

 

Yah, right. It's always the kids' fault, eh?

 

The only reason why any council is in a financial dilemma is that the adults runnin' the council have not been livin' within their means in terms of personnel costs.

 

 

 

 

[TheScout]

But of course it is up to the Scouts themselves to support their program. Scouting isn't free. Scouts need to pay their way somehow if its selling popcorn, delivering papers, etc.

[Eamonn]

I think Beavah, has hit the nail on the head.

I have a real hard time asking the families we serve to support and pay the salaries of the professional staff.

Sadly the small towns in our area are facing a declining population and those that remain are the older residents.

Most of our Scouts come from Westmoreland County

Where The:

Average wage per job $30145

Median household income: $37,106.

Somehow asking these people to dig deep to pay the salary of a guy who is making three times what they do just doesn't seem right.

Eamonn.

 

[FScouter]

Think of it rather as paying for a function performed by an individual. Nobody pays to support a person. They pay to support a real functional purpose that is provided by some individual. If it is determined that the function is not being performed, then the individual should be replaced. If it is determined that the function has no value then the function should be eliminated.

 

Rather than bellyaching about "council" blowing our money, challenge your council reps to better account for the dollars required to fulfill specific functions. Then decide whether those functions are necessary. Of course if you decide the clerk provides no useful service, dont be surprised if your phone call isnt answered within 4 rings, if at all.