Sout Zone Video on youtube now linked at www.savescouting.org

[theysawyoucomin']

Brian,

Today I taught 13 Bears how to make a crystal radio. In the Cub book in 1930.

 

Still in the Bear book.

 

 

Obsolete as can be.

 

They had a good time and can't wait until we finish them next meeting.

I don't think those 8 year olds have read how backwards scouting is on your website. Some even wore neckers.

[brianbuf]

Gee, you guys have convinced me that the direction scouting is going is somehow going to lead to reaching more boys. Unsure still how that is going to happen since membership numbers are dropping like a rock, but if we keep on doing what we have kept on doing, why, perhaps magically we will get different results than what we have been.... hum.. I don't think so.

 

Sure, we all love the old ways of scouting. But scouting should not be about what we, adults, old timers, whatever... happen to personally like. I am for modernizing the methods WHILE STILL KEEPING the values and lessons. Why? Because I think that the BSA program will reach more kids that way. And Lord knows in this day and age we need more kids in scouting, not less.

 

So go ahead and just maitain the status quo and watch the numbers continue to drop, quarter after quarter. Blame untrained leaders, although there are more than ever before. Blame competing activities, although kids have more free time than ever in the history of the USA. Blame parental apathy. Blame Brianbuf.

 

And don't work to make "scouting relevant to the kids of today." We wouldn't want to reverse the multi-year membership decline. No sirry bob... it would make scouting different from my 50 years in the program and I am too selfish to realize that scouting is not about me! Status Quo all the way... and somehow we will get different results. You guys have finally convinced me of the errors of my ways. We can rely on magic or a miracle to get the program to more boys instead of less each year. Thanks to you all! YIS, Brianbuf

 

 

[evmori]

uz2bnowl,

 

Did the crystal sets work? I remember building one when I was a kid! I thought I was Marconi!

 

Brian,

 

As usual, you are missing the point. No one is afraid to change anything in Scouting. I think we would all agree Scouting needs to keep up with the times. But your suggestions are not the answer. Rad uniforms & rock music & cool icons are not the answer! You as much as admitted it when you endorsed the video you posted on your site! The video shows Scouts in traditional uniforms (one with a bolo tie on) doing what Scouts have been doing for decades!

 

Not all youth groups grow year after year. They have their ups & downs. There are may more things for boys to do now than there was 10 years ago. Scouting isn't for every boy. Or adult for that fact.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[Miki101]

Brian,

 

Membership went up 255,000+ in the quarter ending September. Therefore, it's "not dropping like a rock."

[Fuzzy Bear]

Numbers are up in our area of the country. I suppose if one is making a case for general causation based on end of the year numbers, being open to all possibilities is a first step. Another step is to be open to what is working. Generalities are prone to individual fluctuations/characteristics that may change the profile and one's perception. One would also need comparative data on other 100 year old youth organizations to begin one's search and there should be a literature review as well of all youth organizations. It may lead one into a much bigger project than what it looks like on the surface. Where only generalities exist, so goes any chance of a definition of the question but it does make an interesting topic of conversation, as we have seen.

 

I am happy to see another Scouter care as much about Scouting as Brian as shown in all of his efforts. fb

 

[brianbuf]

 

Miki wrote "Brian,

 

Membership went up 255,000+ in the quarter ending September. Therefore, it's "not dropping like a rock"

 

That is far from the truth. I received national and membership numbers from a good scouter who is pretty high up in the organziation. Last year that had any increase national was 1998. I have posted the national numbers on my website, on the bottom of the page after regional numbers. Right there in black and white.

 

Please just don't throw out numbers you have made up. It detracts from the discussion, and the honesty thing.

 

Fuzzybear, thanks. I realize many disagree, but thanks for noticing that I actually care about reaching boys and making scouting "relevant to the boys of today." (as the new President of BSA said).

 

 

[Miki101]

Thanks Brian,

 

My numbers are absolutely correct. They came from the National Archives and you need to go there. Your heresay does not overcome fact. You need to substantiate your claim. I have a feeling that you got bad information. Mine are published and accessible to the public. Sorry.

 

 

 

[Miki101]

By the way, how dare your suggest that I am a liar. That is a personal affront and shows that you hide behind emotional, unsubstantiated arguments. That belittles the organization. I deal with facts not heresay. Let me know when you go into the Archive and get the facts. Now, why don't you name your "buddy."

 

Shame on you, Brian.

[BrentAllen]

Ol' Brian is a piece of work! He accuses Scoutnut of lying about him, when all he did was make a reasonable assumption based on statements Brian hade made. Then he turns around and accuses Miki101 of flat out making up numbers! Yeah, boy!

 

Miki, your numbers can't be true - they would mess up his whole website if they were correct!

As I have mentioned before, local Packs here had a great recruiting season this fall. I was curious to see overall numbers.

[brianbuf]

Miki and Brent... what are you guys talking about? Please post the link for the source you are quoting. 255,000 is more than Boys Life subscriptions went down over a multi-year period. If there was a one month enrolment spike, then I stand corrected. If so, it would be washed away by quarter after quarter declines. I am not making this up, below is Octobers report!

 

Anyone can say anything. (Example: The Methodists and Mormons are pulling out of scouting, which can be said, but it ain't true) I have posted the report here. What is the link to your source? Where is this archive you talk about?

 

My "buddy" has posted numbers here:

 

http://www.meritbadge.net/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=423

 

He has regular reports, and is kind enough to forward them to me.

I get the monthly numbers from the national report showing regional and national numbers and most numbers are DOWN, as each quarter is.

 

I am afraid that the formating will not come across well, but here is the report. READ IT AND WEEP.

 

NATIONAL MEMBERSHIP/PARTICIPATION REPORT

RS 0582 October 2006 PAGE 1

TOTAL TOTAL TOTAL

NORTHEAST REGISTERED YOUTH UNITS REGISTERED SOUTHERN REGISTERED YOUTH UNITS REGISTERED CENTRAL REGISTERED YOUTH UNITS REGISTERED

LAST YEAR THIS YEAR % LAST THIS % CHG LAST YEAR THIS YEAR % LAST THIS % CHG LAST YEAR THIS YEAR % LAST THIS % CHG

CHG YEAR YEAR CHG YEAR YEAR CHG YEAR YEAR

BOY SCOUTS OF AMERICA BOY SCOUTS OF AMERICA BOY SCOUTS OF AMERICA

TIGER CUBS 37,415 37,542 0.3% TIGER CUBS 74,614 76,954 3.1% TIGER CUBS 66,582 68,235 2.5%

CUB SCOUTS 141,740 138,021 -2.6% CUB SCOUTS 232,648 226,101 -2.8% CUB SCOUTS 208,930 202,729 -3.0%

WEBELOS SCOUTS 133,849 127,578 -4.7% WEBELOS SCOUTS 199,699 184,697 -7.5% WEBELOS SCOUTS 183,703 172,345 -6.2%

TOTAL CUB AGE 313,004 303,141 -3.2% 8,434 8,300 -1.6% TOTAL CUB AGE 506,961 487,752 -3.8% 14,042 13,560 -3.4% TOTAL CUB AGE 459,215 443,309 -3.5% 12,745 12,537 -1.6%

BOY SCOUTS 179,667 174,940 -2.6% 7,890 7,735 -2.0% BOY SCOUTS 230,608 217,768 -5.6% 11,505 11,037 -4.1% BOY SCOUTS 201,650 194,258 -3.7% 9,851 9,542 -3.1%

VARSITY SCOUTS 1,858 1,415 -23.8% 210 194 -7.6% VARSITY SCOUTS 3,190 3,306 3.6% 526 498 -5.3% VARSITY SCOUTS 2,337 2,248 -3.8% 351 332 -5.4%

TOTAL SCOUT AGE 181,525 176,355 -2.8% 8,100 7,929 -2.1% TOTAL SCOUT AGE 233,798 221,074 -5.4% 12,031 11,535 -4.1% TOTAL SCOUT AGE 203,987 196,506 -3.7% 10,202 9,874 -3.2%

VENTURERS 29,331 29,797 1.6% 2,360 2,348 -0.5% VENTURERS 59,355 49,710 -16.2% 4,312 3,911 -9.3% VENTURERS 38,937 37,822 -2.9% 3,403 3,270 -3.9%

TOTAL MEMBERS 523,860 509,293 -2.8% 18,894 18,577 -1.7% TOTAL MEMBERS 800,114 758,536 -5.2% 30,385 29,006 -4.5% TOTAL MEMBERS 702,139 677,637 -3.5% 26,350 25,681 -2.5%

LEARNING FOR LIFE LEARNING FOR LIFE LEARNING FOR LIFE

ELEMENTARY 39,874 31,050 -22.1% 217 213 -1.8% ELEMENTARY 62,012 99,960 61.2% 367 500 36.2% ELEMENTARY 32,807 47,544 44.9% 307 418 36.2%

MID./JR HI. 31,260 24,388 -22.0% 227 187 -17.6% MID./JR HI. 15,115 28,032 85.5% 133 231 73.7% MID./JR HI. 12,006 15,912 32.5% 165 220 33.3%

HIGH SCHOOL 59,899 45,995 -23.2% 142 123 -13.4% HIGH SCHOOL 38,695 45,423 17.4% 105 164 56.2% HIGH SCHOOL 45,810 46,833 2.2% 234 286 22.2%

EXPLORERS 25,049 24,721 -1.3% 1,483 1,441 -2.8% EXPLORERS 56,101 54,310 -3.2% 2,298 2,181 -5.1% EXPLORERS 36,125 35,511 -1.7% 1,941 1,826 -5.9%

SPEC. NEEDS 12,730 7,492 -41.1% 173 126 -27.2% SPEC. NEEDS 9,512 9,534 0.2% 314 355 13.1% SPEC. NEEDS 7,977 7,379 -7.5% 231 200 -13.4%

TOTAL LFL/EXP 168,812 133,646 -20.8% 2,242 2,090 -6.8% TOTAL LFL/EXP 181,435 237,259 30.8% 3,217 3,431 6.7% TOTAL LFL/EXP 134,725 153,179 13.7% 2,878 2,950 2.5%

TOTAL YOUTH 692,672 642,939 -7.2% 21,136 20,667 -2.2% TOTAL YOUTH 981,549 995,795 1.5% 33,602 32,437 -3.5% TOTAL YOUTH 836,864 830,816 -0.7% 29,228 28,631 -2.0%

TOTAL TOTAL

WESTERN REGISTERED YOUTH UNITS REGISTERED NATIONAL REGISTERED YOUTH UNITS REGISTERED

LAST YEAR THIS YEAR % LAST THIS % CHG LAST YEAR THIS YEAR % LAST THIS % CHG

CHG YEAR YEAR CHG YEAR YEAR

BOY SCOUTS OF AMERICA BOY SCOUTS OF AMERICA

TIGER CUBS 22,315 22,884 2.5% TIGER CUBS 200,926 205,615 2.3%

CUB SCOUTS 179,376 180,366 0.6% CUB SCOUTS 762,694 747,217 -2.0%

WEBELOS SCOUTS 125,164 126,103 0.8% WEBELOS SCOUTS 642,415 610,723 -4.9%

TOTAL CUB AGE 326,855 329,353 0.8% 14,258 14,486 1.6% TOTAL CUB AGE 1,606,035 1,563,555 -2.6% 49,479 48,883 -1.2%

BOY SCOUTS 227,952 227,685 -0.1% 12,776 12,909 1.0% BOY SCOUTS 839,877 814,651 -3.0% 42,022 41,223 -1.9%

VARSITY SCOUTS 52,070 51,635 -0.8% 6,934 7,024 1.3% VARSITY SCOUTS 59,455 58,604 -1.4% 8,021 8,048 0.3%

TOTAL SCOUT AGE 280,022 279,320 -0.3% 19,710 19,933 1.1% TOTAL SCOUT AGE 899,332 873,255 -2.9% 50,043 49,271 -1.5%

VENTURERS 88,757 89,365 0.7% 8,785 8,878 1.1% VENTURERS 216,380 206,694 -4.5% 18,860 18,407 -2.4%

TOTAL MEMBERS 695,634 698,038 0.3% 42,753 43,297 1.3% TOTAL MEMBERS 2,721,747 2,643,504 -2.9% 118,382 116,561 -1.5%

LEARNING FOR LIFE LEARNING FOR LIFE

ELEMENTARY 72,183 79,118 9.6% 296 358 20.9% ELEMENTARY 206,876 257,672 24.6% 1,187 1,489 25.4%

MID./JR HI. 8,157 13,945 71.0% 81 88 8.6% MID./JR HI. 66,538 82,277 23.7% 606 726 19.8%

HIGH SCHOOL 57,521 59,304 3.1% 150 149 -0.7% HIGH SCHOOL 201,925 197,555 -2.2% 631 722 14.4%

EXPLORERS 29,965 30,565 2.0% 1,548 1,595 3.0% EXPLORERS 147,240 145,107 -1.4% 7,270 7,043 -3.1%

SPEC. NEEDS 6,346 6,545 3.1% 108 111 2.8% SPEC. NEEDS 36,565 30,950 -15.4% 826 792 -4.1%

TOTAL LFL/EXP 174,172 189,477 8.8% 2,183 2,301 5.4% TOTAL LFL/EXP 659,144 713,561 8.3% 10,520 10,772 2.4%

TOTAL YOUTH 869,806 887,515 2.0% 44,936 45,598 1.5% TOTAL YOUTH 3,380,891 3,357,065 -0.7% 128,902 127,333 -1.2%

TOT_MBRSHP_COUNCIL_RPT_REG 11/02/06 11:25

 

[Miki101]

Brian,

 

You have non-sense. Let's break down the National numbers, shall we?

 

BSA Report # 12505 prepared 10/6/2006 (available in the National Archives)

 

Total BSA Youth (Cubs, Scouts, Varsity, Venturers, Lone Scouts)according to BSA = 2,491,910

 

(Not including Cubs) = 1,052,437

 

Brian's number from Aug 2006 = 844,303.

** Wow Brian, you're off by only 208,134 registered youths. Very Impressive.**

 

Total Youths registered at the end of 2005 according to BSA = 2,938,698

(Not including Cubs) = 1,193,374

 

Brian's number = 887,378

** Hey, you're off 305,996 in that number**

 

The 280,980 membership increase number that I quoted earlier resulted from the increase from the 2nd quarter to the 3rd quarter. Therefore, a "rock" would keep on dropping. It's on a rise right now. So...

 

You, Sir, are a propagandist and an alarmist and doing a great dis-service to the organization. When you start dealing in facts then you will get more positive attention.

 

It's a sad reality that you hide behind the facade of trying "to help the program" when you actually bring distrust and falsehoods to it. Some inner soul searching - and a new, more credible source - would do you a world of good.

 

Regards, David C. Scott

 

 

 

[Miki101]

Writes Brian, "What is the link to your source? Where is this archive you talk about?"

 

Good grief, Brian. How can you take yourself this seriously if you don't know about the BSA National Archives in Irving.

 

It's is truly a fact now, you have ZERO credibility but you are still a propagandist.

[evmori]

Apples & oranges!

 

The numbers Brian has show a comparison from the same time last year and they do show a decrease. What Miki101 is referring to is this current quarter compared to the previous quarter.

 

Thanks for posting the numbers, Miki.

 

Looks like the rock has stopped!

 

Brian,

The last post in the link you posted 12/5/2006 8:58:09 AM was in 6/2006. A little old now.

Looks like an apology is in order.

 

Does anyone think the reason for the rise is because Brian posted that cool video with the rock music (Brian's term, not mine - to me it's barely music) that shows all those Scouts in uniforms (one with a bolo tie) doing Scout stuff?

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[stevejb]

I am really tired of the bickering going on in this thread. If I delete the video from youtube (after all, I am the one who posted it) can we stop this thread and get on with more constructive talks?

 

Tell you what, why don't you all watch this video (

), have a chuckle over it, and get on with the better things in Scouting and life.

 

Steve B

Scoutmaster, Troop 68, CMC(This message has been edited by stevejb)

[brianbuf]

Steve, you are right about the bickering and crap.

This post was about the video. A darn good one at that.

 

Some things need to be addressed, then we can close this thread. First, saying my numbers are off is not fair. These numbers are Novembers report direct from the BSA. So if the numbers are off, it is BSA, not me that are off.

Second, so we had one month that may have spiked up, but for the year we are way down. Yep, I guess the entire basis for my website has evaportated.. sort of a silly remark, aint it. 10.9% decline in some areas. Wake up people!

And no, what website is the national archives at? You fail to provide a source, then say anyone who does not know where it is has no credibility. That is silly as well. What is the site?

 

Still waiting for Scoutnut to admit he attributed things to me I never said. Whereas with Mikki, if there was a single month increase fine... it is in the midst of a multiyear huge decline. That CAN NOT be disputed.

 

Lets fix the problem and work with the new BSA President to make scouting "relevant to the boys of today." Why are you fighting the new president?