Smoking Scout

[VentureRobb]

thanks for the replies I just don't see how to tell the youth not to smoke when several adults at all camp outs smoke.

[emb021]

"I just don't see how to tell the youth not to smoke when several adults at all camp outs smoke. "

 

Simple.

 

1. He's a youth, not an adult.

 

2. If any adults are smoking, they should NOT be doing it in front of the scouts. I know a few scouters who smoke. If they need to smoke on a camping trip, they all go away from all the youth and do so.

 

3. Many groups & organizations set down such 'no smoking' rules for their members. I can tell you that with the college group I advise, their school has a requirement of 'no smoking' at all organization meetings & events, which all approved campus groups must put into their Bylaws. The BSA doing this is no different.

 

 

[evmori]

If this Scout is under the legal age then there is no problem at all.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[SWScouter]

Ed, the scout is above the legal age, hence the problem.

[packsaddle]

VentureRobb, I understand how you might feel, under those conditions, a bit hypocritical telling him not to smoke. I do not intend for that statement to be personally critical, just that I imagine I would feel the same.

The best way out of this is for someone (better, everyone) to quit smoking. Otherwise, you are either going to ignore the rules or else you are going to tell him to 'do what I say, not as I do'. This is inescapable.

 

At one time I thought smokers were a dying breed. But looking around various college campuses, I have begun to doubt it...the 'habit' seems to continue strongly among students (and these are supposed to be smart people).

 

I used to work for an agency that had a strict no-tobacco policy in buildings and in all vehicles. On many occasions I had to inform guests and to remind subordinates of the policy. On one occasion I put someone off a boat and onto the shore. Years later now, whole cities are going smoke-free. But it was a rule that had my commander's signature and I followed it. Whether you follow the rule or not is your decision. I wish you the wisdom to choose well.

[Gonzo1]

I find the dipping and spitting to be pretty much the same.

Not allowed, but often done. I gues some guys think we don't see it.

 

[Eamonn]

Smoking seems to be a hot issue.

As a smoker I know that I get very defensive when it comes up.

I do find the hypothetical situation posted about alcohol to be a little insulting.

The rules laid down by the BSA about alcohol are very clear. I don't think that my smoking has ever impaired my judgment when it comes to dealing with Scouts.

As OGE posted the rules are clear.

This 19 year old is still a youth member as long as he remains in (or joins) a Venture Crew.

Hopefully at only 19 someone can find the right buttons to push that might make him want to quit.

Even if it's only telling him how much it can cost over a life time!!

I might add that I consider myself a very considerate smoker. I don't smoke where I'm not supposed to. I don't smoke in my car when there are non-smokers in it. If I'm at someone else's house I will go out doors for a smoke.

I'd also add that the G2SS talks about tobacco products. I get a little annoyed at the holier than thou people who give me a hard time while they are gnawing on a mouth full of tobacco.

Eamonn.

[packsaddle]

Amen to that! We had a guy who dipped in our outfit. He had the disgusting habit of leaning over whatever trash can was nearby, to spit or to disgorge a wad out from his cheek. It only took one visit by this guy for all the trash cans to disappear from the office on subsequent visits. He never seemed to 'get' it.

Until the memo about tobacco use came down from the top, that is. After that his vile effluent was deposited all over the edges of the front entranceway.

The thought I never could shake, though, was that he was married. His wife actually kissed him on the mouth, maybe even.....uuuuuuuuugggggggghhhhhh.

[VentureRobb]

thanks Eamonn I also was a bit insulted by the alcohol statement and adults smoking was not even the question I just wandered about a venturer smoking.

 

[SR540Beaver]

"thanks for the replies I just don't see how to tell the youth not to smoke when several adults at all camp outs smoke."

 

You have a valid point Robb. We lead by example.....or we are supposed to. If we tell the boys no food in tents to keep the critters away, they shouldn't see us cracking open a package of cookies in our tent. We had an incident this weekend on an outing that involved my son. There was a campfire in the adult area. Boys are not allowed in the adult area without permission, therefore they could not enjoy the fire. The boys were not allowed to have their own fire for a variety of reasons. My son got more than a little ticked off about the fairness of the whole situation when the boys are standing around trying to stay warm in the cold night air and the adults have their big butts parked in camp chairs around a blazing fire. We set a very poor example. In fact, I ended up leaving the fire and sitting in the cold with the boys because I realized it was unfair for them. Some of the adults still don't see it that way. They think the adults are entitled to perks that the boys are not. To make matters worse, our associated Venturing Crew was along for this outing and they got to enjoy the fire while the scouts were excluded. Again, not leading by example.

 

The rules are pretty clear about youth smoking (and to some of us, less clear for adults). I chewed for almost 20 years. I quit cold turkey in July 2005. I was going to be at the Natioanl Jamboree with 45,000 of my closest scouting friends. Finding a place to spit without being noticed was kind of hard to do. Besides, it was the wrong example to set. I quit.

 

Likewise, I have been overweight for the last decade. One of the driving factors for me to do something about it (besides it being bad for my health) was the bad example I was setting for scouts. I've lost 36 lbs. since the end of May and hope to lose that much or more in the coming months.

 

Perhaps you should recruit him and tell him that smoking is prohibited for youth......and that you will quit with him. You can use the outings as an opportunity to be smoke free and to encourage each other when the urge strikes either of you.

 

[packsaddle]

Just curious Beav, why were the boys excluded if they weren't allowed to have their own campfire? I agree with your feelings about adult perks. Rank does have its privilege to some extent but that extent should not be destructive to the program.

[SR540Beaver]

Pack,

 

I don't want to hijack the thread, so I'll try to be brief. We seldom have fires because there just isn't time. Our outings are pretty well scheduled. After doing whatever our program is for that outing, it is time for dinner and KP. Next comes a campfire program and then lights out shortly after that. There really isn't time to build and maintain a fire. Our November campout is an exception to the rule. We do an annual Turkey cookout where we have a 30 foot long, 3 foot deep and 3 foot wide pit dug by backhoe and we cook turkeys in it. We cut wood for several weekends ahead of this. On Friday night, the adults start the fire in the pit at midnight. We work two shifts of 12 to 3 and 3 to 6 of sitting up and continaully feeding the fire to build our pit of coals. It is a sight to behold!!! We build a small campfire off to the side for those staying up half the night to sit around, stay warm and visit. This fire seems to keep getting fed thruout Saturday. Parents and family arrive shortly before 3 PM to eat Thanksgiving dinner with the troop. We fed 150 this year. The parents and little kids use the fire to stay warm. After dinner and KP, we have a campfire program around 6 to 6:30 and the parents leave. The rest of the evening is open and unscheduled. As I said, the adult area is off limits except for questions and problems and such. Most of the adults parked around the fire. The boys could not. Some like my son found it unfair. Especially that the new Crew got to sit around it without being run off. I don't know why that was. The SM "said" that they were the guests of the adults. That was news to some of us other leaders. The last we knew it was stated that the Crew would camp off to the side of the patrols but would basically function as a patrol for the purposes of this campout. Our SM is a great guy and a great SM and I'm not even qualified to tie the man's shoes. That being said, he can be wrong at times. As I said, we usually don't have time to build and maintain fires. This time it would have been possible. He is one of those leaders who believes (as do I most of the time) that idle hands are the devil's workshop. He prefers to keep the boys active since the adults volunteer their valuable time to the program. The boys can sit around like lumps at home. His experience is that when there is a fire to sit around, all activity ceases and nothing gets down, plus there starts to be horseplay and someone is going to gewt hurt. So, his preference is no fires for the boys. While I can see his point, fires go woth camping like tents and sleeping bags do. We are a boy led troop (98% of the time) and the boys have been trained to build fires. It was cold. It wouldn't have hurt anything. Senior leadership could have even built and supervised the fire. But that didn't happen. The adults had a fire, the Crew enjoyed it and the scouts watched from the dark and cold. I ended up watching with them. We have a similar type campout in January and you can bet that it will be discussed up front and ahead of time. It got kind of ugly this past weekend.....even though the majority of the outing was highly successful and fun.

 

How is that for being "brief"?

[GernBlansten]

We are all scouts. Independent of our ages. All rules apply equally to all scouts.

 

No smokin', no cussin', no drinkin', no chewin'.

 

Never heard of an Adults only area at a campout. I would also find that offensive just like SRBeaver's son did.

[SR540Beaver]

Gern,

 

I've been associated with 3 troops and in each one, the adults functioned just like a patrol. Each patrol has their own site and everyone asks permission to enter their area. Adults don't enter a patrol site witout announcing themselves with, "permission to enter camp" and the same goes for the boys coming to the adult area. Does that mean we don't ever associate with one another on outings? Absolutely not. We spend most of the day on Saturday doing program and are heavily involved with the boys. We do the campfire program together. We hold the PLC in the adult area. We do BOR's and SM conferences in the adult area. But for meals, KP, sleeping, down time, etc. the boys stay out unless they have permission. It is quite common in these parts. The boys understand and respect it because we do the same.

[hendrickms24]

 

I really do not understand what you are trying to do by smoke out of the sight of the scouts. Do you think that the scouts are to dumb to know what you are doing? When my wife started smoking, again I knew it in seconds with out even seeing her puffing away.

The sense of smell can tell a person many things and smoking is one of them.

 

 

Mark M.