Parents support Troop???

[donert]

I have parents and Assistant Scoutmasters that will only support out Troop program if their Scout is going to be involved. Our last fundraiser would have offered a couple of merit badges like they did last year but since their Scout already had the merit badge they did not offer it to the new Scouts. They have Scout off to a OA weekend and don't offer to help with Scouting for Food. What do you say to parents that are involved in the Troop just for their own Scout?

[Eamonn]

While I have a lot of questions about the things that seem to be going on in the Troop.

I'll bite my tongue and try and stick with the

" What do you say to parents that are involved in the Troop just for their own Scout?"

One of the big leadership skills is communication.

Scouts and their families need to know whats happening.

For this to happen there has to be a plan in place.

If you want to involve someone and ask them to support something they need to know what they are supporting.

When it comes to fund raising. If you say that the funds raised are going to be spent on a camp or a trip and their kid isn't going to attend the event. I can see why they wouldn't want to support it. If you say the money will be used to buy equipment that is needed by the Troop I'd expect everyone to do what they can to help.

When events clash like having the Scouting for food drive at the same time as an OA activity? I have to think that someone screwed up and this was poor planning.

I do expect ASM's to serve the entire Troop, not just their son. In order to ensure that things go as smoothly as possible, everyone needs to know what is happening and when it's going to happen. In the Ship we have one adult who would never in a thousand years miss an OA weekend. We have one adult who doesn't think we should have activities over holiday weekends. The Regatta is held every year over Memorial Day, so I know not to count on him or expect him to be there.

At our next Annual Planning Meeting we are going to try and come up with a budget for the Ship. Once we have that in place we will share it with everyone. The cost of just running the Ship is fairly high, we need that amount of money just to be able to offer the program. If we want to then subsidize events or activities that will mean that we need more money. We need to look at where that will come from.

Different units use different methods of how funds are managed. Some offer all the Scouts a percentage of the money raised and keep the rest for the unit. Our Scouts have said that they want to have some events where all the money goes to the Ship, some where we will split the money and some which will be used to help offset the cost of Camps. I will understand that if we hold a fund raising event for Summer Camp and a Scout isn't going, that that family isn't going to participate. But it would still be a Unit event and I'd still expect my assistant's to do their job and assist.

Eamonn.

 

[ozemu]

usetobeafox I understand your frustration but to be honest I, in your situation, would now say

 

"thanks for being involved, have you got everything you need, go for your life in the direction that you've chosen and excuse me while I work with the other Scouts" or something like that.

 

I would be grateful if ANY parents got involved. My ASM stays only while her son does and she is as busy as hell and not really supported by gher husband - so I am grateful for the time she can give. That's it - no other parent interest at all at present.

 

So if that is their motivation and that is what they will commit then I suggest that there is no point in agonising over it - there are other Scouts who you can concentrate on while these parents take care of their own (plus their friends I suspect).

[donert]

These same parents always want to get their own way like have their Scouts go to the same old resident camp and want us to plan our trips around their schedule. What do you say to them? The SM is in charge of program, isn't he in charge of what date....he is the one using all of his vacation time from work.

[Lisabob]

Yeah I say "welcome aboard" and "what can you help with?" and also "thank you for all you have done." Not all people can or will eat, breathe, and sleep scouting, most are in it for their kids, and you may need to develop a wider circle of supporters so that you're not expecting the same people to do everything, all the time.

 

Now on the other hand, a MB counselor really ought to be willing to work with any of the troop's boys who have an interest in that mb - not pick and choose based on whether their own child is interested - schedule permitting, of course. But is there a reason why these mbs are tied to your fund raisers? That's not my understanding of how it is supposed to work anyway. If boys want to earn the mb and certain parents aren't available because of scheduling issues or whatever, then the SM can/should help them find a different mb counselor, end of story - you have your district list, right?

 

As for when and where to go to summer camp, well yeah I'd be a little annoyed if any one parent/leader (incl. SM) thought s/he could dictate that decision year after year, based solely on his or her schedule. But on the other hand, if the troop elects to go somewhere and wants me to go with them, then there are only certain places and times when I'm willing or able to go. Same for my son - there are a couple of weeks each summer when he cannot go to scout camp because we have other obligations. So do you want (need?) these parents amd their boys to attend or not? If so, you need to come to an agreement; if not, why worry?

[Beavah]

Yah, old Fox, we all feel your pain.

 

Simple answer is that there's no way you'll ever change those leapord's spots. Parents who don't look beyond their own needs or "what they get out of it" aren't goin' to change, least not much. Certainly not by arguin' with 'em. All you can hope is that you provide a great example so their kids grow up more generous.

 

So don't waste your energy on it. Spend your time with your "good" parents. Use 'em, cultivate 'em, listen to 'em, praise 'em. The others should get exactly as much of your time & attention as they give to the program (the program, mind, not their kid).

 

As far as schedulin' and summer camp goes, that's up to the PLC. One family's schedule or desires, if their son passes 'em along to his PL, gets exactly the weight of one family. Welcome to representative democracy; yeh can't always get what you want. All we do is provide opportunities to kids. If they can't make it or don't want to come, that's their choice. The only courtesy issue is to try to decide on dates at least a reasonable time in advance, so families can plan around 'em.

 

So hard as it is to deal with "I want ergo you must" parents, ignore 'em and move on, with a simple "sorry, that's the schedule, maybe you can rearrange or maybe junior will have to wait until next year. G'day." Or sometimes it may help if your CC explains that scoutin' is just like any other youth activity. They don't get a say in the football schedule or when the band concert is either.(This message has been edited by Beavah)

[donert]

MB I was talking about was Entreprenuer and Salesmanship for the Troop fundraising project. They selfish parents also work on MB's during Troop meetings until their Scouts finish and then they drop the ball for the other Scouts and don't even follow up to complete the other incomplete. What do you say to a MB councilor who starts and finishes a MB before the SM ok's the Scout for that MB? (signes the blue card) How about the parents who hang at the Scout meeting and gather all the info for their Scout on Troop activities and wonder why the other Scouts don't get the info home about activities. I talked about a mailing home the Troop calandar each month to keep the parents informed (not every Scout get the info home) and they shot that down. Also on the Troop calandar they want the school activities on the calandar so our Scout activities don't interfere with school activities---the school doesn't put Scout activities on their calandar. Does the SM have any say in what goes on the calandar or how it is delivered?

[Beavah]

Hiya Foxy,

 

Easy there. Sounds like there's just a whole raft of issues, and you're on your last nerve. Take a deep breath, go for a walk and enjoy the leaves or da snow or whatever, set scoutin' aside for a minute. Then, rather than talkin' about all the symptoms, see if yeh can identify the cause. What one thing seems to be "off" in your troop operations? Address that, without gettin' into personalities.

 

You don't really describe your troop committee, just "parents." So tell us a bit about your troop committee. Open (any parent can show up and gets a vote) or Closed (a defined committee membership)? Effective CC or weak CC? Any non-parent committee members? Strong ASMs or are you "it"? Off da cuff, I'd say you need to build up yer committee a bit.

 

In the end, a parent or committee can only usurp the SM role to the extent the SM allows. If you want to send out a newsletter, grab your troop Scribe and a helpful adult and send out a newsletter. Yeh don't need to ask permission. If someone isn't doin' a good job as MBC, don't invite 'em back to meetings, and don't use 'em in the future. If someone is playin' "fast and loose" with the process, pull 'em aside and tell them "no." If a boy still comes with an unapproved Blue Card, remind him of the rules, then send him off to a new MBC for a "quick check/finish up."

 

Only thing you have to decide is who is comfortable enough with confrontation to be the "bad cop," eh? It should be the CC if possible, but sometimes it's the SM, or a good UC. From afar, you need to figure out who that person is in your organization, or fix your setup somehow so that the program is protected.

 

Sayin' "no" sometimes to adults is as important as sayin "no" sometimes to kids. It's how we keep a program strong, and how we teach character.

 

 

[ozemu]

usedtobeafox I think Beavah has something there. The PLC makes some of those decisions. Now I watch the cycle turn every three years or so and the PLC goes from being strong and active to being inexperienced and apathetic as the characters come and go.

 

If you PLC is up to it or if you are able to lead them toward writing their own newsletter, planning their camps etc you can cut the parents out. The Scouts will not learn the skills of leadership and management if mum and dad are too involved. As MB counsellors etc parents can get real busy.

 

Is the PLC supposed to have the ultimate say in the MB being up to standard? We do that. Scouts get some knock backs and some do extra work when they realise it is not the adult who has the say - their peers are not as easily fooled or as soft either. In fact I sometimes have to remind the PLC to consider the individual Scouts abilities etc.

 

Would that help you out? That the PLC steers the ship with you in the lookout tower watching for nasty rocks and parents that might be in the way and advising on changes to course?

 

Sorry - got a bit carried away with the metaphor.

 

It might be easier defending the PLC than fighting the parents. Same issues but different perspective.

[Gonzo1]

ex Fox,

ozemu is right, Beavah is the man! Always has good advice.

Ozemu does too. Have PL's provide input to newsletter, when next inspecton is, next patrol outing, whatever. SPL provides his comments, SM give some wise words. Mail it out. What's the cost? 39 cents each? ... C'mon.

Develop your PLC, build and develop you Troop Committee.

 

Good Luck

 

[theysawyoucomin']

uz2bafox,

Some parents have only enough grease to use under the skids of their own kids runners.

 

I think those are parents you don't need.

 

You see the same genes in sports. Coach's kid does all the pitching. Coach's kid gets the most playing time in soccer.

 

When I run something everyone is invited. My kid is no longer in Cub Scout yet I am still on the committee.

 

As an ASM you must believe in the movement. At that position it is not longer about just your kid. Let the COH know what is going on and ask for his(the ASM's) patch. and be sure to tell him why.

 

Pure selfishness, I could fly into an honest to goodness rage everytime I see it.

 

Let people know the extent of your rage, small or big , and find a couple of other Dad's that are just waiting for you to ask them. Be sure to let them know you expect them to be there for all the boys.

[MarkS]

usedtobeafox said, "These same parents always want to get their own way like have their Scouts go to the same old resident camp and want us to plan our trips around their schedule. What do you say to them? The SM is in charge of program, isn't he in charge of what date....he is the one using all of his vacation time from work."

 

Something is definitely wrong when the SM is in charge of your program instead of your PLC.

[donert]

Mark S. quoted: "Something is definitely wrong when the SM is in charge of your program instead of your PLC".

 

Mark S: Do you think I am going to let the Scouts dictate what time I donate of vacation from work? I don't think so and I am not going to let the parents do it either.

 

Beavah Quoted: that scoutin' is just like any other youth activity. They don't get a say in the football schedule or when the band concert is either.

[MarkS]

usedtobeafox said, "Do you think I am going to let the Scouts dictate what time I donate of vacation from work? I don't think so and I am not going to let the parents do it either."

 

I don't think a boy run program necessarily means that the Scouts dictate how much time you donate to their activities. The adult leadership should advise and set limits. You made it sound to me like your SM is running the program (maybe I misunderstood). You and I both know that's not how a Boy Scout Troop should be run.(This message has been edited by MarkS)

[MarkS]

usedtobeafox said, "MB I was talking about was Entreprenuer and Salesmanship for the Troop fundraising project. They selfish parents also work on MB's during Troop meetings until their Scouts finish and then they drop the ball for the other Scouts and don't even follow up to complete the other incomplete. What do you say to a MB councilor who starts and finishes a MB before the SM ok's the Scout for that MB?"

 

I'm not a big fan of doing Merit Badges during a Troop meeting. However, our PLC decided that they wanted to do a couple Eagle required MBs during this program year. Our SM identifies potential MB counselors for the SPL/PLC but its up to the SPL to invite the counselor and the PLC to plan/coordinate the meeting with the counselor. If a boy misses the meeting and can't finish the badge, too bad. He can still get the approval of the SM to work on the badge with the same or another counselor at another time.

 

As a counselor myself, I would never teach or sign off on a merit badge application that had not been endorsed by the applicant's SM. If I were the applicant's SM and received a completed application from a scout that I did not endorse, I would talk to the counselor and scout about it. If this was a first occurrence, I would make it clear to both that they require my approval before the counselor can teach a badge to a scout in my unit. If this was a repeat occurrence, I'd be contacting my council about the counselor. My main concern is potential youth protection issues.(This message has been edited by MarkS)