Cold Cub Camping

[scoutldr]

It's fall camporee weekend here. Tonight it's expected to dip into the upper 40's ... the coldest Wx so far this fall. During lunch, a coworker and Cub leader stated, "Cubs can't go camping below 40 degrees".

 

Anyone else heard of this "rule" and is there a reference? I've looked in the G2SS and didn't see it.

 

(I know cubs can't go to camporees...that's not the question.)

[Beavah]

"Winter camping" is not listed as an age-appropriate activity for cub scouts. That's a guideline, of course, and winter isn't defined. Maybe your council has some "under 40" definition in its interpretation of the BALOO site approvals?

 

But in terms of the national guidelines, if you camp in the "winter" in Texas or Florida, that would be OK, eh? And kids in northern climes who typically walk or snowmobile to school when it's 20 below aren't goin' to have a problem with eatin' S'mores around a fire at 39 degrees.

 

On average, though, it's a good guideline. Takes a lot more gear, experience, and work to keep young'uns happy and healthy in the cold. 30's or 40's and rain can be particularly challengin'. Switchin' to cabins when da North wind blows gives you a lot more flexibility, especially for the Tigers, Wolves, and Bears.

 

 

 

 

[fotoscout]

Fall Camporee implies Boy Scouts. You are asking about Cub Scouts. Cubs should not be camping at a Boy Scout Camporee. Webelos on the other hand may under some circumstances camp at a Camporee.

 

Having said that, the upper 40's is not really very cold. Unless the boy is sleeping in a Mickey Mouse fleece, he should be warm in any other reasonable sleeping bag. Yes he may have to put on some sweats.

 

Councils make their own "winter camping' rules for Cubs and Webelos. Check with your council office for the official ruling in your area.

[scottteng]

I have been at cub family camp at 25 degrees in Florida no less. I was ready to go to the Holiday Inn Express down by the highway but my son who was a wolf at the time was toasty warm in his better grade of sleeping bag. Don't think there is any hard and fast rule it was a council event at a boy scout camp.

[yelruh]

As long as it isn't rainy, I don't see any problem with it. I've been winter camping when overnight temps were 5 and 8 degrees, but the days warmed up to the low 50's.

 

It was so cold in the morning that the eggs froze a bit when you tried to crack and scramble them. We kept things in the cooler to keep them from freezing.

[John-in-KC]

What fotoscout said.

 

G2SS guidelines below. Note this is boldfaced, or policy level stuff:

 

The Boy Scouts of America has established the following guidelines for its members' participation in camping activities:

 

- Overnight camping by Tiger, Wolf, and Bear Cub Scout dens as dens is not approved and certificates of liability insurance will not be provided by the Boy Scouts of America.

- Tiger Cubs may participate in boy-parent excursions, day camps, pack overnighters, or council-organized family camping.

- Wolf and Bear Cub Scouts and Webelos Scouts may participate in a resident overnight camping program operating under BSA National Camping School-trained leadership and managed by the council.

 

Short version: FAMILY CAMPING, meaning 1 parent/1child, unless the parent has multiple children in the unit.

 

I agree with Beavah about temps and dry/wet conditions. It's really easy to get a child sick if he's not properly equipped for 40F and rain!!!

 

YIS

[John-in-KC]

BTW, here's the url to the G2SS (without the frames of the National website) camping chapter:

 

http://www.scouting.org/pubs/gss/gss03.html

[nldscout]

In our council in NNY there is a written rule that says Cunbs may not camp outside if the ambient temprature at night is expected to be 40 or below.

[mtm25653]

We had a cold (nighttime temps in mid 30s) cub campout this weekend in NC. Our brand new Pack has about 30 boys, 14 who transferred over from a nearby Pack. We chose to camp at a nearby state park (5 minutes from my house), instead of going to the district event 90 minutes away so that families had the easy option of coming for the day or going home to get stuff they forgot/realized they needed. We sent out an email on Thursday warning of the cold weather, and including a list of tips, like dress in layers, bring hats and gloves/mittens, and don't sleep in the clothes you've worn all day. We made it clear that it was fine to come for the day or to campout. We had 8 Webelos and younger brothers Fri night, 20+ during the day Sat (including trick or treating and a campfire), and 8 (not all the same ones) Sat night. All but two of the camping families included Webelos, one was a Bear with camping experience. The last was a Tiger, with ASM granddad's gear. I was the only one who had problems with the cold - claustraphobia from my mummy bag led me to sleep in the car.

 

Our district always has a cub camping event (same weekend, same site as the boy scouts, separate program, shared campfire) in Oct. Sometimes its in the 80s, sometimes in the 30s-40s. We trust the leaders and the parents to do what is right for their families, and only camp if they are prepared. There is never the expectation that you have to camp, or you have to stay if the weather turns.

[Gonzo1]

Just got back from Cub Scout Family Camping weekend, halloween theme, haunted train, trick or treating, crafts, da works! Friday night was chilly, probably 40 degrees. One mom slept in her car. She thought the dew on the tent was too much. She and her son didn't stay for Saturday night.

 

Saturday was beautiful weather. however, while someone listened the Georgia Bulldogs game, they found out there would be rain and some thunder. about 10% of the camp bailed out Saturday evening. We had a couple more families leave Saturday night from our pack.

 

Maybe, just maybe, the cubs aren't quite cut out for camping if they can't handle a little coolness and rain.

 

What kind of message does it send the the cubs if you only camp in fair weather? Where is your poncho? or rain fly? Don't people pack with Zip Lock bags?

 

 

 

 

[Lisabob]

Gonzo,

 

I understand your point. But many families do not have much, or any, experience with tent camping. And smaller kids are often not used to being cold, wet, and uncomfortable in addition to being away from home (sometimes that by itself is tough for some kids at cub age, even when the weather is good and mom or dad are there with them). So I think you need to be careful not to be too harsh here. It doesn't necessarily send them the wrong message if you camp in good weather. It does provide an opportunity for "beginner" campers to have a really good experience their first few times, learn some things (like the ziploc bag trick), and WANT to do it again another time. If on their first camping trip they have a bad time for whatever reason, chances of getting them back a second time are slim to none.

 

Lisa'bob

[Gonzo1]

Lisa,

Points taken.

Gonzo

 

[WVCubDad]

2 weekends ago we had our fall pack overnighter. It was colder than normal (40's overnight) and only 55 during the day and it rained off and on during Saturday and overnight. However the next morning when I unzipped the tent, I was treated to a very nice sight of the full moon setting in the west over the mountain ridge and the beginnings of a clear blue sky. I took a picture.

 

My son, a Tiger, didn't mind the rain, we even went fishing in it - caught plenty! Some of the families bailed, one had a bona fide problem with a leaky tent, the others were concerned with the health of their boys. I told one Mom that she didn't have to pitch her tent, they could stay for the day and see how it went. They ended up leaving in the afternoon.

 

This coming weekend one of the local troops is sponsoring a Bring a Buddy Camp for Scouts (Fri to Sun) and Cubs (Sat to Sun) as a recruiting effort. Long range forecast is calling for a few showers Saturday and Sunday with daytime highs of 49 to 51 and nighttime temps of 37 and 41 respectively. Currently there are only 10 Cubs and Parents signed up to go, but we'll dress in layers, change clothes before we slip into the bags and I'm bringing my poncho liner again to wrap over my son and I in the tent.

 

My only concern is that this is my first camping experience as the leader in charge and I want it to be a good one for all concerned. Thank goodness I got all the leader training requirements done this weekend, including BALOO. I just need to get all the pack gear together, finalize the menu and decide if we're taking the portable campfire washtub or not.

 

The activities that are planned include a belt loop midway - Map & Compass, Astronomy, Fishing and Ultimate. There's also a pumpkin painting contest, trick or treating through the other troops and packs as well as a campfire program and Sunday worship service. As long as there isn't a named hike, my son will be happy. He really dislikes hiking.

 

John

[Gonzo1]

I'm a WDL and a Unit Commissioner (for other units). About 8 weeks ago, the other WDL and I took our Webelos camping. Warmer wx I know, but I sent out a packing list to the parents and boys.

 

Since the family camping we just had was for packs, I assumed that other den leaders or someone else would send a packing list also. I know, I know..... I know what to expect when I assume.

 

Some people didn't bring eating utensils or anything to eat out of.

 

Here's what I'll do: I'll offer a class to the parents of our cubs to improve their camping skills so no one has to hide in the car, get wet or go hungry. (nobody actually went hungry, we had a stash of paper plates and plastic ware)

 

Like one of our other forum members says:

I love this Scoutin' stuff!

 

Gonzo

[mtm25653]

"What kind of message does it send the the cubs if you only camp in fair weather?"

 

It sends the message is that these are cub scouts, not boy scouts. They and their parents are just learning about camping and outdoor skills. We don't expect cub families to have the full range of camping equipment, and many parents have no experience camping.

 

I encourange experienced cub scout campers (family who regularly camp, Webelos who have been in the pack and camped for 3 or 4 years) to camp when it's colder or wet, but it is always ok to just come for the day.

 

Most boy scouts I know (and that is a lot - I have had at least one son as a boy scout for 14 years) have to gradually accumulate camping equipment. Their family probably had a family tent when they were cubs, but many of these are not very waterproof, have very large vents and very small flys - not appropriate for cold or wet camping. Most started with "camp" sleeping bags (rectangular and big and maybe not very warm) as cubs or new scouts and eventually get the smaller, warmer backpacking mummy bags.

 

Now Boy Scout troops, they camp in any weather, and my sons' troop has - snow, rain, cold. But even there, some younger boys may not be ready, and may not have the equipment, to handle the more extreme weather. But they learn.