Webelos and camping

[Lisabob]

I agree that the communication aspect of this is rather challenging. If there were only one consistent answer AND EVERYBODY GAVE IT, it sure would go a long way toward fixing the problem. The problem I've seen over the years is that, while there is actually a "right" answer, you get 17 different answers on the way to the right one. And half the time the people giving the answers are so far removed from cubbing that they have no idea and come up w/ wildly inaccurate "information" for Webelos leaders in the process. Very frustrating.

 

OK I'm done ranting about poor communication and misinformation.

 

Here is my understanding. I suppose someone will quibble with it too. You can't camp with webelos at a Boy Scout camporee. Webelos & their parent/adult CAN camp with a troop on other occasions (like troop camp outs) but only for ONE night, not two.

 

If troops aren't inviting you, or if they argue that you "aren't allowed" to camp (I heard that one several times as a Webelos DL!), or if you don't know how to track down troop contacts, then call one of the following people and start requesting help: your unit commissioner (if you have one), your district membership chair (who should also have some folks working on webelos-scout transition program in your district), or your district executive if need be.

 

Lisa'bob

 

 

 

 

[fgoodwin]

Lisa'bob:

 

Where does the one night limitation on Webelos camping come from?

 

Fred

[Oak Tree]

Lisa'bob,

 

I too find it frustrating that BSA scatters its official policies across a wide variety of documentation, which seems to encourage any number of Scouting myths to propagate. Putting them all in one place wouldn't stop it entirely, but it seems like it would help.

 

Like fgoodwin, I wonder about the one-night restriction. It seems like we've had this discussion before, relative to pack overnighters. Does it mean one night, or more than one? Different readers might have different opinions.

 

The G2SS says "A Webelos Scout may participate in overnight den camping when supervised by an adult." So, does that mean it can only be one night? I can see how you might think it means one night, but I know the normal practice around here is to do two nights, and I think it's a valid interpretation to mean any number of nights. The G2SS also says "Webelos Scouts may participate in a resident overnight camping program operating under BSA National Camping School-trained leadership and managed by the council." These are definitely more than one night, so I think it's safe to say that a one-night limit is not implied by the word 'overnight'.

 

I don't mean to put words in your mouth, so if you have another source for the restriction, my apologies for guessing at what you were referring to.

 

Oak Tree

[Lisabob]

Fred and Oak Tree, sorry for not responding more promptly. You sent me back to digging through my BALOO training material, which I first had to locate...

 

At any rate. Yes, the ONE night perception does come from the G2SS discussion of webelos camping. It also comes from the interpretation we were given at our BALOO training. I didn't realize that this might be a local interpretation that could vary elsewhere. But, looking at the documents I found from my BALOO days where this is explained, those documents are in fact council-level (or maybe district-level, I'm not sure). They're not official BSA national publications.

 

This has me wondering and I will ask our DE when I see him later this week if there is another source for this (he helped deliver BALOO so I'd hope he'd know, if there was).

 

Lisa

[BrentAllen]

Webelos Handbook, 2004 Edition

Camping Away From Home, pg. 352

You may have Webelos den overnight campouts, where Webelos Scouts and their adult partners camp out for one or two nights.

[fgoodwin]

Lisa'bob: thanx

[nldscout]

The first thing to keep in mind BALOO does not apply to Webelos that are on a den camping trip or when camping with a troop.

 

BALOO is for Pack Camping only.

[Vicki]

Well, I'll be darned. Now that I've learned something new, I guess I can just go home for the day!

 

The Greater St. Louis Area Council has a spring Camporee and a fall Pacao (stands for Pack Campout). Both events have a Troop side and a Pack side with separate day-time events. Most troops seem to invite their associated pack(s) over for either lunch or night-time cobbler or both. There is much fraternization between leaders. It's kind of a blast, actually. Just last year, packs were invited to camp with their associated troops at the spring event. Mixed reviews as to the success of that, as you may imagine.

 

Vicki

[John-in-KC]

Vicki,

 

What I think you Eastern neighbors of us Kansas City types have done is CRACK THE CODE:

- Have two events,

- Under district leadership

- at a large enough site where there is a "cub family camping area" and a "boy scout camping area"

- at a large enough site where there is a "cub program area" and a "boy scout program area"

 

Nothing to me says cubs cannot come and visit troops for a while, or troops cannot go help cubs for a while.

 

Lisa:

 

Reading Chapter 3 of G2SS, do you think someone may take the term "overnighter" to a HARD LITERAL interpretation (such as ONE NIGHT?) ???

 

YIS

[bcraytor]

I suppose there is more than one right answer. I have been trained as a Webelos leader, and now formal Scoutmaster training. I have BALOO training as well.

 

I can't seem to recall any FORMAL rule on one or two nights of camping, but suggestions for one night as it sometimes is more difficult for the younger Webelos and their parents. However, that being said, our Troop encourages Webelos to come on outings, and at our Camporees, the Webelos can stay all nights, but they need to have a troop 'sponsor.' Even at our Scout-o-rama we encourage the Webelos to come! Our Scout-o-rama is outdoors at a park in the city limits and lasts 3 days (two nights). This has helped our Pack grow to close to 80 boys, and our Troop to grow to 60-70 boys!

 

Bret F. Craytor, First Assistant Scoutmaster

Troop 16, Texarkana, Tx

Assistant Webelos Den Leader

Pack 16, Texarkana, Tx

 

 

[fgoodwin]

Bret:

 

Welcome to the Forums.

 

Fred Goodwin

[scottteng]

I had the good fortune to be involved with two distinct counsels as a cub scout parent.

Our first council had cub family camp encompassing friday night camp saturday full day of cub scout age appropriate activities campfire saturday night and scouts own service sunday am. optional meals were available for 3 meals sat and cold breakfast sunday. The events were put on by boy scout troops from all over the council. This was a rural council and covered large geographic portions of two states. The council camp was within the council and appx two hours drive from our home at the outskirts of the council

Our second council had cub family camping as well starting at noon on saturday with afternoon of age appropriate activities campfire saturday night and scouts own service sunday am. meals were required dinner sat and breakfast sunday. Family camp was offered at two camps one of which was within the council one owned but not within both appx half hour drive from our new home again at the outskirts of the council. My last time at cub family camp I went as a WDL and had den come early and participate in cooking lunch which was not offered to fulfil a requirement. There was a host troop there and we visited their encampment. We also visited a camporee day visit only.

Now I get to sit back and admire the thought and planning that went into these weekends. Council one with its greater travel distance arranged arrivals on friday evening so everyone would have time to arrive even from the outlying areas even if there was an accident or traffic tieup and be ready for the days activities on saturday.The activities were planned for the boys to go to without much adult supervision. Council two with its geographically smaller service are scheduled a noon arrival on saturday. Traffic is at a minimum but life is naturally more hectic in a more populated area. More emphasis on family participation in events note required meals. noone is back at camp cooking but they readily agreed to my den coming early and fixing lunch.

The people in each council planned their events to meet the needs of their customers the cubs and the parents.

[greenSM]

I still don't know why the rules laid out in the G2SS are so difficult to understand: Webelos may not camp at Camporees but MAY visit during the event.

[greenSM]

I still don't know why the rules laid out in the G2SS are so difficult to understand: Webelos may not camp at Camporees but MAY visit during the event.

[pargolf44067]

We just finsihed a campout invited our two "feeder" packs Webelos II dens to come. We did some items that were geared towards Webelos and helped them earn some of their Webelos pins. We had seven boys from the one pack and one boy from the other pack. I got nothing but positive feedback about the campout from both the boys and their parents in the troop and the boys and their parents in the pack. In fact, one of the boys in my son's den that went wasn't sure that he even wanted to stay in Cub Scouts for the final year. Yesterday morning when we were packed up and leaving, his dad campe up to me and said, "Well, I think you have recruited a Boy Scout for next year." That alone made my day, but there were several other positive comments made.

 

For those that didn't make this campout, we forwarded our schedule on to the two packs' leaders and offered that the Web IIs could come and visit for the day.

 

I think that it is really important that the boys see what the troop does on campouts, because, by the time they are Web IIs they get somewhat bored with the cub scout program, and it is important for them to see how different boy scouts are from cub scouts.

 

Bill