Webelos and camping

[ScoutMomAng]

I've been a WeBeLoS leader for 4 years now, so you think I would know this stuff and where the heck to find this information.

 

I moved from one state to another and continued being a WeBeLoS leader. I was prepared to take my WeBeLoS camping to the Boy Scouts Fall Camporee. However, due to leadership issues our pack has not had an official meeting yet so the boys didn't even have the opportunity to know there was a Fall Camporee this weekend. But...I guess its a good thing because there are NO weBeLoS at the Fall Camporee. When asked why I was told this...

 

WeBeLoS can only camp for one night. I said, No, they can camp for two. Am I wrong?

 

I was also told. Fall Camporee is for Boy Scouts and WeBeLoS cant go camping with Boy Scouts everytime they go camping because they have their own program. I said, they aren't camping every time with them just one weekend. It is so the WeBeLos can complete requirements in their book that says, go camping with a Boy Scout Troop or participate in an outdoor activity with a Boy Scout Troop.

 

Then....I was told, well I guess they can go camping with the Boy Scouts but they can only go on Camporees that are sponsored by the Council not ones sponsored by the District.

 

I was lost on that one. Can somebody help me find the true real answers to WeBeLoS and camping with Boy Scouts?

 

I explained that when WeBeLoS go camping with Boy Scouts it gears them for what Boy Scouts do when they go camping and this is where they learn the importance of a patrol.

 

Please help.

YIS

 

Angela

[FScouter]

A Camporee is a Boy Scout event, usually 2 nights. Because the event is designed for Boy Scout level activities, Webelos should not be taking part. Sometimes Webelos may be invited to visit for the day, not overnight.

 

A Weboree is a similar event designed specifically for Webelos. Districts should be holding both events during the year. In our district, we don't have enough of committed volunteers to put on a Weboree, so Webelos are invited to attend the Boy Scout Camporee, despite BSA guidelines to the contrary. It doesn't work well.

 

The best way for Webelos to camp with Boy Scouts is when a troop invites them and plans the campout with activities geared for their skill and experience level.

[BrentAllen]

Angela,

Consult the Cub Scout Leader Book - it has all the answers to your questions.

Regarding the Camporee:

"Webelos overnight camping at Boy Scout camporees and/or events is not a BSA-approved activity."

"In selecting the location for a Webelos overnight campout, remember that Webelos Scouts should not experience Boy Scout-type camping on the overnight." (I read this to mainly address bathroom and water issues - there should be real bathrooms available - flush toilets, sinks with running water - for Webelos camping)

"Webelos overnights do not include backpacking."

 

"Webelos dens are encouraged to have several overnight campouts each year.

 

Webelos den overnight campouts are parent-son events, under the direction of the Webelos den leader who is assisted by the assistant Webelos den leader and the Webelos den chief. Sometimes, additional leadership from a Boy Scout troop may join you. In most cases, each Webelos Scout is under the supervision of his own father, mother or guardian.

If a parent or guardian cannot attend, the boy's family should make arrangements for one of the other parents or another adult relative or friend to be a substitute at the campout. It is essential that each Webelos Scout is under the supervision of an adult and that every adult has a share of the responsibility for the campout.

 

Webelos dens are encouraged to participate in joint overnight campouts with Boy Scout troops; however, a parent or guardian of each Webelos Scout must still attend."

 

So, don't go camping at Boy Scout Camporees. Set up car-camping trips with Boy Scout troops. Good luck!

[ScoutMomAng]

FS Scouter and Brent Allen,

 

On page 344 of the Webelos book in the Outdoors requirements Requirement number 4 says exactly:

 

With your parent or guardian, camp overnight with a Boy Scout troop. Sleep in a tent you have helped pitch.

 

In my last council/district the Webelos were ALWAYS invited to participate in the camporees to help fulfill this requirement. They always had their own tent site and participated very minimal with the Boy Scouts. They observed things that the Boys did but virtually had their own program. The Boy Scouts always had at least one or two activities prepared that the Webelos they invited could participate in.

 

So if Webelos do not camp with boy scouts why exactly is this requirement in their book?

[ScoutNut]

Webelos DO camp with Boy Scouts. What Webelos do NOT do is participate in BOY Scout programing.

 

Webelos are CUB Scouts NOT BOY Scouts. When Webelos are participating in an activity with Boy Scouts, the programing should be at the Cub Scout level. All Youth Protection, Guide to Safe Scouting & Age Appropriate Activities guidelines for Webelos CUB Scouts should be followed.

 

This is why BSA's rules state that Webelos are allowed to visit, but are not allowed to camp at, or participate in, a Boy Scout Camporee. A Boy Scout Camporee is set up specificaly for BOY Scouts. The programing is BOY Scosut programing not CUB Scout.

 

It sounds like both your former council, & your current council, do indeed follow the BSA rules on Webelos / Boy Scout camping. They just do it a bit differently. Your former council basically had a Webelosree along with the Camporee. The Webelos had their own camping area & program. Your new council does not have any Webelos programing at their Boy Scout Camporee so they do not allow Webelos to camp, just to visit.

 

To complete Outdoorsman requirement #4, a council/district event is NOT required. In fact, a boy could earn Outdoorsman & his AOL without ever participating in a Webelos / Boy Scout campout at all. Camping is only one option.

 

Many times a local Boy Scout Troop will invite a Webelos den(s) on a campout, or other activity, with them. The activities the Troop puts together for this event should follow all CUB SCOUT guidelines. Very often a Webelos den leader will also contact local SM's and ask the Troop to put together an activity (campout or other) for their Webelos to do with the SM's Boy Scouts.

 

 

[BrentAllen]

Angie,

I never said Webelos don't camp with Boy Scouts. In fact, I said just the opposite:

 

"Webelos dens are encouraged to participate in joint overnight campouts with Boy Scout troops; however, a parent or guardian of each Webelos Scout must still attend."

 

Just not at a Camporee. Make sure it is appropriate type camping. See Guide to Safe Scouting if you aren't sure.

[kenk]

Just to be complete, there is another kind of camping for Webelos - the resident camp. I don't have my Cub Scout Leader book with me anymore (I passed it on down the line), so if someone could describe how those are to work, that might be useful.

[ScoutMomAng]

Okay, let me clarify somethings...

 

Old council did not put programming together for the Webelos, that was up to me the Webelos den leader.

 

New Council does not invite Webelos to camp with them, EVER.

 

I understand that they are not supposed to camp at the camporee but the new council does not even invite them to visit.

 

I'm not sure why they do not camp at the camporee, because in both councils they apparently do not do anything so extravagant or out of Cub Scout programming that they could not do. (My husband just came home from this weekends Camporee...no backpacking, no hiking and actually had a full day of activities but nothing that Cub Scouts could not participate in).

 

I realize that requirement number 4 is NOT required and that the AOL can be earned without that requirement but it is an option and one I personally prefer to use so that the boys experience Boy Scout Camping as opposed to Cub Scout Camping. Its nice for them to observe that Boy Scouts do it all by themselves, without mommy and/or daddy.

 

As for the Webelos resident camp---that still does not complete requirement 4, however our district only performs that in the summer months and let the information out so late that it was impossible for me to get the time off work to take the boys.

 

 

[SueM]

Our council nearly always invites Cubs to the Camporees and often also invites them to do family camping along side their "sister" troop (if they have one) for one night. While the Cubs don't participate in the events, they do get to watch them as the Scouts do the events. Sometimes there are events specifically for the Cubs too.

 

sue m.

[WDL Mom]

Hi,

 

We are kind of in the same boat with Webelos camping this year. I guess our council has been doing things "wrong".... Camporee was for Boy Scouts and Webelos, it was the primary outdoor "recruiting" event for most Troops in the area. Klondike also allowed our Webelos II to participate in the teams that competed.

 

This year, Camporee is only for Boy Scouts. Not sure what they plan on doing with Klondike. They did bring back Webelos Woods for a overnighter just for the Webelos, but, no Boy Scouts attended.

 

We have a Halloween event which is a Pack overnighter. Our sister Troop staffs the events (hayrack, haunted house, carnival games etc.) for the cub scouts. Our Webelos are going to tent in the area with the Boy Scouts rather than with the rest of the Pack.

 

Not the best situation, but, better than nothing. Otherwise a troop has to set up a separate, special campout specifically designed with the Webelos in mind. With planning done so far in advance, we will have a tough time getting out with a troop on a "real" Boy Scout campout.

 

I preferred the old camporee model. This is just going to make it tougher to organize.

[greenSM]

Gosh. My _Guide to Safe Scouting_ says that Webelos are allowed to "visit only" Boy Scout Camporees.

 

I find it extremely disheartening that this rule is almost universally broken by "trained" Scouters, Districts, and Councils.

[Eagledad]

>>With planning done so far in advance, we will have a tough time getting out with a troop on a "real" Boy Scout campout.

[WDL Mom]

Hi Barry,

 

I am working with troops to set up a campout... thus the October event.

 

All of these "changes" came out of nowhere, and there has been no discussion or communication on how to get these things together. It is frustrating.

 

I am planning a winter cabin campout for the Webelos, but, not with any particular Troop. Also hope to visit Klondike with the boys, I am assuming the Webelos aren't supposed to participate, though I haven't heard one way or the other.

 

I am glad to hear that Webelos attending your campouts happens regularly and without major hassle. Unfortunately, it hasn't been that easy for us. But, we keep on trying.

[Eagledad]

>>All of these "changes" came out of nowhere, and there has been no discussion or communication on how to get these things together. It is frustrating.

[BrentAllen]

We are chartered by our elementary school PTA, so we are not affiliated with a particular troop. Most of our boys cross over into one of two local troops, though there are 4 very close to us geographically. They could all compete for our WII's, but most don't.

 

My son is a WII, so I had a little more personal interest in setting up camping trips with troops, but it really wasn't that hard. We have 4 troop campouts scheduled between 10/1/06 and 3/15/06. I started setting these up in late August, just a few months before the first campout - it doesn't take 12 months advance notice to make these happen.

 

Call the SM or SPL, ask for their camping calendar, let them know your goals, and pick a trip. Good luck!