Catholic Church only wants Catholic Leaders and Scouts

[Aquila calva]

www.virtus.org

 

[SSScout]

All well and good. The CO can set membership requirements for their Pack and Troop and Ship. But what happens when the stray Jewish/Quaker/Lutheran/Mormon/Unitarian/Wiccan boy comes along and wants to be a Scout in a one-Pack-Town? MUST a boy be turned away because his family is not a "parish" member?

 

I don't think even our Mormon friends are so - ahem - parochial. Would they also turn away a non-Latter Day Saint?

 

Growing up, my Pack and Troop and Explorer Post (and come to think of it, they had a SShip, too) was sponsored by a Methodist Church. I wasn't Methodist. My family was from an Episcopal-( no local church)-Northern Baptist (we were further south then) mix. The Troop Church was close by, my friends were members, too. Looking back, it seemed very convenient. I remember some Jewish and Catholic boys mixed in. Come Scout Sunday (or Saturday), we all went our seperate ways, but no one ever, to my lengthening memory, turned a boy away due to his professed family beliefs.

 

True, I can see a Pack/Troop/Ship being predominantly of one religion if the CO is a religious org. But is it really a good idea to "officially" deny a boy a chance to be a Scout on the fact that his family is not in eclesiastical agreement with the majority of the CO? Especially if it is "the only game in town"?

 

I think the Priest is losing sight of an excellent outreach to the community and to possible future converts.

 

Story: Our Troop (and others) was invited to a Patriotic speech (fouth of July?) to be given by General Hershey, then head of the Selective Service (another thread...). It was to be given at a Jewish Synagogue. We all went, full uniform, with parents. Methodist, Catholic, Episcopal. They presented a Jewish memorial service, honoring (I think) Jewish military lost in the service of the nation, in Hebrew, before the speech. IT WAS LONG!! (well, I was maybe 12?)

 

What would the priest have said to that? Would he have refused to allow the Pack/Troop to attend?

 

Hard Questions....

 

YiS

 

[Aquila calva]

Let me try that again.

 

Here is a link to a youth protection program becoming common in Catholic churches, as referenced in earlier posts. This may help explain some of the current attitudes among leaders in the Catholic church when it comes to adult/child interactions.

 

 

http://www.virtus.org/virtus/virtus_description.cfm

 

 

[GernBlansten]

LDS units will allow non-LDS scouts to join. They do however have to comply with all the LDS tweeks to the program. I doubt a non-LDS adult could be a leader in any LDS unit though.

[Trevorum]

lawnboy - welcome to the forums!

 

Very interesting situation, with lots of questions at this point. Please keep us posted as to how it resolves. I'm hoping that the Jewish fellows and others will not be turned away by this well-meaning priest. I'm hoping that once he gets to know the 3rd volunteer leader though a face-to-face meeting (an excellent procedure for ANY chartering org) he will allow registration.

 

 

[gwd-scouter]

Beavah, that's Knights of Columbus.

 

Anyway, we have very active Boy and Girls Scout Troops at our Catholic Church in town. They do not require that the youth be members of the Church. They also do not require most unit leaders to be members. However, they do require it of the top unit leaders: SM, CM, etc.

 

We had two boys from that Troop transfer to our Troop a couple of years ago. They were not Catholic and actually were having a good experience with the Troop. Their only complaint was that all campouts ended on Saturday night so that the Catholic members could attend Mass on Sunday.

 

 

[orennoah]

I don't know the official rules, but the priest's stand just doesn't seem very Christian to me.

[Eamonn]

It seems to me that we are never happy.

If the CO doesn't take an active interest in what the Scout Unit is doing, we complain.

Then again when the CO as in this case does take an active interest we complain.

Having spent about a dozen years as a leader in the UK, where we don't have really have CO's and adult leaders receive a warrant from the National Association (I think, but I'm not sure that's how the Girl Scouts manage adult leaders?)I found the BSA way of doing things really strange.

I used to look at it like trying to serve two masters.

I'm sure the forum members who know the history of the BSA will be able to come up with a reason or explanation as to why it is the way it is. I kinda think that James E. West had something to do with it.

When I was one of them there District types!! And people would ask me about it. I would try and explain that the BSA owned the program, but the CO owned the unit (No I'm not going to talk about fast food!!)

I was the CM of a Pack Chartered by the Catholic Church which I attend or as is now said I'm a member of the Parish Family. I was CM when we had the PP who didn't seem to have much time for kids was in office.He was a nice man, but it just seemed to me that he was more concerned about some of the other things that the parish was doing than about the Pack.

Over half the Cubs we had were not Catholic and about 25% of the Den Leaders were non-catholic. Our COR was an Ex-Den Leader, the Dad of a Lad who didn't cross over into Boy Scouts, he was also the Church Youth Group Leader, as time passed he seemed to know less and less about what was happening in the Pack, but he was there for us when and if there was a problem.

Before my term the Pack didn't have a Pack Management Committee and I had selected the Pack Committee Chair. and had trained her. I did know the Priest well, as I served on the Diocese Committee on Catholic Education. So when we had new adult applications I would meet with him and I'd give him a quick run down on who the people were. He'd ask if I knew them? I didn't always know them, but I knew of them and then he'd ask if I would vouch for them?

I think if we had just presented him with the applications he would have sent them back.

Most Catholic Churches I know of that charter Scout units are happy to see youth of all faiths working and playing together.

Eamonn

[scoutldr]

I am Lutheran by faith, and attended a Mass of the Resurrection last night for the Dad of one of my scouts. There were more similarities than differences...I knew the words to most of the liturgy and acted like I belonged there, although the Priest kept mentioning the "Christian Catholic family", letting me know I really didn't belong. The gist of the message was, although the dearly departed was a Southern Baptist by upbringing, he recently "converted" to Catholicism in June (after being diagnosed with terminal cancer) so he could be buried from the church that he and his family had attended for years. Our troop attended as a group, in uniform, although this particular parish has a "policy" of "no Boy scouts" dictated by the PP. I once wanted just to borrow a classroom to conduct adult training, and the answer was still a resounding NO. The parish 2 miles down the road, however, charters a Pack, Troop and Crew, open to all. We had our district meetings there, until very recently. The Priest is an Eagle Scout and sits on EBOR from time to time. Go figure.

[Aquila calva]

"I don't know the official rules, but the priest's stand just doesn't seem very Christian to me."

 

orennoah, You make an interesting statement.

 

What do you think the "Christian stand" should be in this situation? Given that the American Catholic church recently went through (and continues to go through) a major scandal involving inappropriate and possibly illegal behavior on the part of some ordained ministers.

 

What is a "Christian" position to take when approving scout leaders?

 

Just curious.

 

We are all becoming amateur risk managers.

[Jeffrey H]

The BSA gives the right to a CO to approve its own leadership provided it does not violate BSA policy. Its a good policy. The CO owns the unit, is responsible for the unit, and needs to be reasonably involved in the selection of new leaders. A CO that questions an application is simply doing their job.

 

My Packs CO is a Baptist church of which Im a member. The CO does not require that our leaders be a member of the church or be Christian, but they have expressed that they are more comfortable if the Cubmaster or ACM is an active member of the church.

 

Our church uses Cub Scouting as a positive values-based outreach program to the community. With that in mind, they are interested in the quality and character of the leaders that deliver the program. A CO that rubber-stamps leadership applications is lazy and foolish.

 

 

 

[Trevorum]

I am curious about how many COs have a religious litmus test for membership in their chartered BSA unit? Other than LDS units - which tend to be exclusively LDS - does anyone know of any units that are 100% of one particular faith? (I don't know of any.)

[scoutingagain]

Trev,

 

I don't know if there are specific membership restrictions, but in our area there are units that are for all practical purposes, are 100% Jewish and some others are 100% Muslim that are chartered by Synagogues or Mosques. I personally don't know of any units chartered by Christian denominations or secular organizations such as the VFW or other community organization that limits membership but there are probably some that I am not aware of. At Camporees or other events the Jewish and Muslim units tend to stand out a bit more, that's why I'm aware of them. I havn't made a survey.

 

We are chartered by a Methodist Church, but have no members that belong to the church. The IH is very pro-scouting and very supportive, even though there are no members of his congregation in the unit.

 

SA

 

[Aquila calva]

Our Troop, Pack and Crew are chartered through the mens club of a large suburban Catholic Church (about 8,000 members!). Since the mens club is not a separate 501c(3) organization, the troop charter is actually held by the church. The church is situated near the border of three different suburban cities, three different school districts and two different scouting districts (talk about confusing!). Most of the recruiting for our Pack is still done through a nearby public school so the boys who join the Pack are of many different religious backgrounds. Most of those Webelos come to our troop, so the troop has boys of many faiths and will accept scouts of all faiths. I am the CC of the troop and a member of the sponsoring church. At weekend services I can look around in church and see boys who are members of at least four different scout troops because they joined scouts through their different public schools.

 

Currently, there are 34 scouts in our troop. Of these only six are members of the sponsoring Catholic church, and eleven others are Catholic and belong to parishes nearby (within a few miles). The remaining 17 scouts are members of other Christian denominations, or are not practicing Christians, as far as I know. (It is interesting that the troop is half-and-half, that is, half Catholic and half non-Catholic.) I am not aware that any of the scouts are non-Christian. In the past few years there have been scouts who are Hindu or Buddhist.

 

It will be interesting to see how things develop in the future, with the increasing emphasis on youth protection on a parish-wide basis. Will all Catholic churches require that all the adult registered Boy Scout leaders and scouts who are 16 or older take the Virtus training (or other similar training)? Since the churches are sponsors of the units and at least theoretically are part of the church youth program, the church leaders may well feel the need to make church-approved youth protection training mandatory. This could be a very good thing, although a logistical challenge. I wonder if this is being addressed on a national level through the Scouting Relationships Committee (or whatever its called).

 

 

[Beavah]

It is interesting that the troop is half-and-half, that is, half Catholic and half non-Catholic.

 

Yah, dat's fairly common in our district. Catholic units are often about half and half. So they have more Catholics than the general population, but are fairly welcomin' of others as long as they aren't anti-Catholic.

 

It will be interesting to see how things develop in the future, with the increasing emphasis on youth protection on a parish-wide basis. Will all Catholic churches require that all the adult registered Boy Scout leaders and scouts who are 16 or older take the Virtus training (or other similar training)?

 

I think they are all supposed to, eh? The Catholic units in our area require finger print background checks and the Virtus YPT stuff for all unit leaders, assistant unit leaders, and cub den leaders. One of da big questions is whether MBCs will be next. The rule seems to be "anybody who has regular contact with youth."

 

Smart on their part. I'm always amazed by the CO's that sign up any warm body.