Camper

[darboy55]

Good Evening... have the following question... see if I can stir up some opinions tonight....Have scouts that is going for first class.... they has been working on merit badges also.... hiking and cycling with other members of the troop.

 

There have been scheduled events with those that are working towards these merit badges within the troop. Two deep leadership has been present during the events and the events are treated like any other, permission slips and tour permits are secured when they are taken to specifics locations to hike or cycle. Some of the scouts have opt'd not to go on the scheduled events and have taken hikes or cycle rides required by the MB under the guidence of the MBC.

 

During all the events when leadership is present we conduct other normal scouting activities... identification of animals, plants, review of weather and personal fitness with requiring the correct foods and liquids etc.... normal type of stuff...... and also used in rank advancement.

 

Now here is the question.... do events which other troop members attend for which a requirements for a MB be completed and leadership is provided count toward the event requirement for first class rank advancement. The requirement number is #3.

 

"Since joining, have participated in 10 separate troop/patrol activities (other than troop/patrol meetings), three of which included camping overnight. "

 

By the way I have read just about everything I could to get a handle on this.... the boys feel the events should count as a troop / patrol activity... the senior leadership is not so willing to buy into it..... Therefore, if you find a reference in some handbook leadership or scout that provides an answer we no longer need opinions. But till then would appreciate your thoughts..... thanks in advance for your time.....

 

[darboy55]

Sorry for the post that first provided the subject of "Camper". It is my first post and did not fully understand. Will make every effort to ensure the quality of the post meets the standards of this forum.

[scottteng]

"There have been scheduled events with those that are working towards these merit badges within the troop. Two deep leadership has been present during the events and the events are treated like any other, permission slips and tour permits are secured when they are taken to specifics locations to hike or cycle."

If you have gone to all this trouble it is definitely a troop event. We give our boys credit for anything that is not just a regular troop meeting including individual attendance at district or council sponsered events. A boy up for First Class should have no trouble with the ten since it includes the five done for second class.

[EagleInKY]

Sounds like they should be counted. Anything formally organized by the troop or patrol should count. We count Service projects, Courts of Honor, day hikes, field trips, campouts, etc. What we wouldn't count would be if a group of boys got together to work on a MB with a MB Counselor. That would be an individual (even if it's the whole patrol) effort.

[CalicoPenn]

If the Troop planned and ran it, and it isn't a troop meeting, it should count as a troop activity.

 

I would respectfully disagree with EagleinKY in one aspect of his reply, which I agree with almost in total. I would think if a patrol decided that they would work together on meeting merit badge requirements with an MB Counselor as a patrol activity, that it should count as a patrol activity, especially if we're willing to accept the same for a troop activity. I certainly think some of the merit badges, though still earned individually, lend themselves well to working on together as a patrol - pioneering, for example.

 

CalicoPenn

[EagleInKY]

You know Callico, right after I wrote that, I thought of the same thing. I started to post again to disagree with myself, but figured I would look pretty dysfunctional, or maybe even bi-polar. Anyway, I agree that there's a chance that it could count as a patrol activity.

[flowerchild]

"Some of the scouts have opt'd not to go on the scheduled events and have taken hikes or cycle rides required by the MB under the guidence of the MBC."

 

I would question their reason for 'opting out'. I would give them credit for the merit badge work but not for the camping or plant identification, etc.

 

In our Troop, if a boy or patrol wants to do a hike or other mb requirement seperate from the Troop, he needs to get permission from the SM before hand. He can come into a meeting and state that he did a 10 mile hike with his family and wants credit for it.

 

 

 

[Gags]

I think we may be mis-interpreting the situation. Darboy55, correct me if I'm wrong, but to summarize:

 

Troop is working on Hiking and Cycling MB's. (I'll just focus on Cycling to keep it simpler).

 

Troop plans and organzies trips to satisfy requirements such as "take ride of 25 miles, take ride of 50 miles, etc.".

 

Troop plans on awarding credit to scouts to count these events as "Troop Activities".

 

HOWEVER - there's some scouts that are working on the badge, but decide to do the rides either A.) on their own, or B.) with the MBC. In this case, I would NOT count the ride with the MBC as a Troop activity, UNLESS the PATROL organized the separate outing. As flowerchild said, this would of course satisfy the MB req, but working on your own with the MBC shouldn't count as a "troop/patrol" activity.

[ASM59]

Hello,

I'll agree with the majority opinion here (including Eagle's corrected bi-polar response). By all means, accept these as Troop outings. If the outing is Troop planned, available for all in the Troop, and follows all BSA rules as you've indicated, then there is no reason not to count these as outings toward 1st/2nd class advancement requirements. Of course, as Gags says above; only count the outing for those attending the "Troop organized" rides/hikes. Boys who go on their own with the MB Counselor and skip the Troop outing, have done just that; "skipped the Troop outing".

 

Now to get picky...

There is nothing in the Hiking or Cycling MB that require that the Hikes/Rides be done with the MB Councelor. Only in the case of the Cycling MB do you have to take one short ride with the counselor to demonstrate that you understand basic laws and safety. Now, having said that, as a Cycling MB counselor, I prefer that the Scouts taking this MB make the rides with me. If I were presented with a situation that a Scout gave me reports of all his necessary rides, I'd want to discuss those rides with him, but I would be compelled to accept the rides toward his completion of the MB.

 

ASM59(This message has been edited by ASM59)

[jr56]

They are not regularly scheduled troop meetings, by all means count them.

[darboy55]

Frist of all many thanks to all that responded... it has been great feedback... from some of the responses there may be confusion due to the way I posted... I apologize.... to clarify some points.... + Only the scouts that went on the planned Troop/Patrol/Scout activity for the hike / ride are looking to obtain credit for the activity. ++ Those that otp'd out are doing the requiremts based on reviews and the agreeement between them and the MBC. Those scouts are NOT looking to have the those hikes / rides counted towards their Rank Advancement. +++ The MB's were offer to the whole troop, not all scouts are participanting, some already have the MB but the whole Troop was invited to all of the Troop/Patrol/Scout outings no matter if they aready had the MB or were not interesting in pursuing but just wanted to hike or ride with us. Hope this clarifies some of the information posted by me.. and again thanks for all the feedback.

[Beavah]

Yah, I'll take a different spin on this, eh?

 

I think yeh should go back and look at the rest of your program, and ask if it's really reasonable for kids to be earnin' all the requirements for first class while only doing the minimum number of activities for requirement 3.

 

In my experience, boys who are ready for first class easily have 10 campouts, not just 10 activities, under their belt, eh? The best programs never need to actually "count" this requirement, because every first class candidate is "way over" the number.

 

Consider whether you're too advancement-focused, so that not enough time on those 3 outings and 10 events is spent just havin' fun, or working as a patrol, or enjoying the outdoors, or developing leadership/followership, or any of those other 7 pesky Scoutin' methods.

 

Maybe you're too quick with the pen, so that kids really don't get much real-world practice before the signature flies. Are those first-class candidates really confident that they could handle a severe bleed and CPR in the field? Why not add another activity, and plant a surprise moulaged-up victim in da middle of a hike and find out?