So what specifically would you add and what to delete?

[GernBlansten]

Brian,

Some of us live by the scout oath and law, other just preach it.

You've struck a raw nerve with some of these folks. Suggesting changes to their beloved program is sacrilegious. I hope your skin it thick. Keep thinking out of the box.

 

You got me to thinking though. If Scouting is supposed to be a boy lead movement, why don't boys have control over the national organization and program? With adult mentor-ship of course.

[brianbuf]

Hey, great thought about more boy input/leadership at that top.

 

Ya, I realize I was going to strike a nerve with some. I would hope that those who view it as "their" program would realize that it is the boys program first. My parents joined the Good Sams club so they could have their own program for adults.

 

Keep up the input... I am learning as we go.

[Beavah]

Sorry, BA, my accent must have been too thick for you, yah?

 

I didn't say abandon values. I said burn the values literature in favor of what attracts kids. Keep the values, eh. You can have a nutritious meal, but you sell the sizzle.

 

And you can keep a DE/program specialist who helps packs set up for recruitin', too. Just clean up the job description. He doesn't do popcorn. He doesn't do FOS. He just provides service, support, program opportunities, training, etc. to cub programs. He builds local partnerships for cub programming. He provides for high-quality on-demand, on-site trainin' and coachin'. He's evaluated only on the quality and satisfaction of cub scout programs in his council.

 

In short, specialize roles like any real organization. We're long past the day when transportation and communication limitations required geographical-area based support.

 

But as to da other stuff, yeh want

 

*kindergarten and preschool scouts

*Boy Scouts to start younger

*indoor crafts projects to go up through all levels, with songs

*more awards and advancement focus (maybe allow adults to wear knots on BOTH sides of their chest, eh;))

*more mandatory trainin' where you don't really have to learn anything, yeh just have to show up.

*add more scout shops, sell more camps, buy the SE a nice shiny downtown office buildin' away from the kids.

*do not evaluate BSA execs on customer satisfaction, quality of program, or whether the kids learn skills or grow in values. Evaluate them solely on how good they are gettin' cute kindergarten cubs to sell popcorn to pay for their shiny new office building.

 

Heh heh. Nah. I don't believe yeh. (unless you show me your Chicago Executive Board card, that is...)

 

I'll admit the "pay the SM just like da hockey coach" proposal I threw out to spur some thought, eh? But "Sure, you will get plenty of leaders - plenty of the wrong kind, just out looking for a paycheck?" Dat sounds like an argument against DE's, eh?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Fuzzy Bear]

brianbuf,

 

I apologize for all of my silly comments.

 

You are correct about the numbers slide in Scouting.

 

I just disagree with your analysis and with your ideas about what can be done.

 

Your reasoning does appear to be contemptuous of some things that I believe may exist only in selected areas of the country. Some of the things you site, I have never heard of before. If those things are happening in your area of the country, then you are correct to attempt a change.

 

It is not that people should not address the problems in Scouting because we have done so here, plenty.

 

Many of us have stood in parking lots after meetings, held coffee meetings after meetings and roared with anger about problems we found in Scouting for years. Several have come close to being censured by Scouting Executives for our comments and some have been.

 

Well, where does that leave us?

 

Since you are gathering information about the reduction in numbers, you should try to understand the impact of the inflated number scandals, ghost rosters, multiple listing of People on unit rosters, litigation regarding loss of sponsors, and the impact of the numerous sexual abuse problems. It is not just that Scouts are embarrassed about the uniform or singing silly songs but it may be much larger and that there is now a trust issue that may not easily be overcome.

 

FB

 

 

 

 

[BrentAllen]

Beavah,

If I had my way, I would probably do away with Tigers - first grade is too early, IMHO. My son didn't start until Wolf. I sure don't want any earlier than that.

 

I've had my fill of brianbuf. I visited the other forums where he posted. Pretty eye-opening. He tells us he is retired, but on other forums states :"My employees said today "My Ipod with a dead battery is more exciting than scouting ever was." and "After 6 days away from my family, my several companies,..." Maybe he just has a different definition of being retired?

Then he told us he his CO basically required him to attend WB, but on another forum he says "I was not forced to go to Woodbadge, but told every boy deserves a trained leader."

 

He wears non-BSA cargo pants to WB and then can't understand why the "oldtimers", as he refers to them (staff, I'm guessing) get upset that he isn't in full uniform. He complains about WB being full of old stuff boys don't like, but doesn't explain how this affects the boys, since it is adult training. Do the boys attend WB in anyone else's councils?

 

He keeps going on and on about the uniform being the cause of the drop in Scouting, and how Venturing is down over 10% in one year. When it is pointed out that Venture crews chose a uniform, and most chose a polo (his answer to a new uniform, btw), and that they don't have totems or "out of date" slogans, that the badges are all career and sports related, he doesn't have an answer as to why Venturing is down more than any other segment of Scouting. Venturing has the changes he wants, but it is down the largest percentage! His only answer is boys have already "mentally" checked out of Scouting before they get to Venturing. How does that add up to Venturing dropping more than any other segment? That percentage decline shows members who were already in Venturing but didn't return, not those who are approaching the age to enter Venturing. The Venturing program should be keeping them in, according to brian's theory, instead of driving them away, more than any other segment of Scouting. It just doesn't add up.

His 4th Ticket item was to "post my personal thoughts about how to modernize Scouting."

His 5th Ticket item was to "promote my website nationally through forums and letters to the leadership."

I hate to ask what his other 3 items were. I wonder how these two ticket items are SMART and relate to his vision for his current position in his unit. Yes, Brian, I know they were approved. You posted them on a forum, so don't tell me I can't comment on them.

My guess is my post will be viewed as an attack, though it is not meant to be. If so, I will go ahead and apologize now. I feel like I'm in Denmark, and the cheese is fine.

 

[brianbuf]

BrentAllen,

If you have had my fill with my ideas, posts, etc... why are you so obsessed with researching everything that I have posted? Move on to something you like. How about you post something new, refreshing, etc... and people like you can take pot shots at you and your ideas. I will be looking forward to seeing your new posts.

 

Ya, I say I am retired... I stopped working full time and regular several years ago. I do own several businesses and stop in 2-4 hours per week to check the books, chat with some employees, etc. So everyone around me calls me retired (even though I employee quite a few) because I don't go to work very often.

 

My cargo pants were scout green, could not tell much difference from a far except they were very comfortable. And you know what, many at WB said ... wow, those are neat pants... neater than this out of date design!

 

What does it matter to my website, my tickets, etc...if I went to WB as an eager beaver (oops) or out of respect for the wishes of other leaders. What does that matter.

 

I just got a report showing 2006 stats YTD. Yup, over all decline continues... some areas up, some down by 30-35% in a single year... (and you are wasting time tryint to figure out if I say I am retired how can I have employees, gosh, get a life!) Scouting is in trouble and needs to be changed to reach more boys and teach them the values that are timeless.

 

In the mean time, I will try to dodge your attacks. I will just sit back and look for your posts. Something new to say about scouting?

[evmori]

BA,

I was wondering what Brian's other ticket items were, too, because the ones he listed seem lame.

 

This is an attack on me and upon my WB leaders. I spent many hours (being retired) in the 4 weeks doing WB non-stop. But I don't have to answer to you, but to my patrol guide. How dare you attack him, his judgment regarding my tickets, and our WB scoutmaster's ultimate sign off. You are DEAD WRONG about them.. and they signed off on my tickets.

 

Nope. Wrong. No attack on your WB leaders or patrol or anyone associated with your WB course. All perceived by you, Brian, just like your reasons for Scoutings decline. You post no facts on your website, just your opinions.

 

You say you have done research yet you quote 2005 membership numbers. What about 2006 the year we are in? Your ideas to save Scouting are to update the icons, uniform & merit badges. The 1st two will do nothing to keep boys in Scouting. The only valid one is updating merit badges.

 

I really think your WB leaders who approved your ticket expected more from your web site than conjecture and opinion because that's all it is. No hard facts. No real ideas.

 

I took the "old WB". Loved every minute of it. Took me a year to earn my beads. Not because I didn't work on my ticket but because I actually put some effort & thought into how I was going to complete each item & then the time to complete each to my counselors satisfaction. When I was done, I felt I accomplished something. Something that to this day, I can still use in more venues than Scouting.

 

Yeah this will be viewed as an attack, too! Oh well. It's not meant to be. Just my opinion. And I don't apologize for my opinions.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[theysawyoucomin']

Brian,

I started this thread to ask about CONCRETE and SPECIFIC SOLUTIONS.

 

You learn in WB that feedback is a gift. Learn to take that gift and put it to work.

 

You still have not mentioned any solutions. Our country has somebody on the news nightly wearing a suit and a tie standing at a podium telling us how truly fouled up we are. This hospital is broke, this gov't system is mismanaged,yada, yada, yada

 

There are very few people finding solutions. We need more.

Everything else is just blather and will be forgotten when the next batch of blather comes along to drown it out.

 

(blather is defined as a noxious wind, gas or noise usually having no use)

 

Focus your efforts on your crew, troop or pack. That way something real happens, instead of more useless chatter.

 

All politics and all Scouting for that matter is local.

 

[brianbuf]

Thanks everyone for your continued input.. it is especially refreshing to see new posters... as for a while it was like the same 3 people posting over and over.

 

Since people are asking me questions or commenting on my post, I will once again respond...

 

"You say you have done research yet you quote 2005 membership numbers. What about 2006 the year we are in?"

 

I do have YTD 2006 numbers, emailed me from a good scouter on this forum. Overall the numbers are down another year. Some areas are up, some are way down 30-35%. Nationwide as a whole down. So, ya, I got some facts. It would be great if someone could get us 5 and 10 year numbers. If anyone has them, real numbers, please go to my website and email me from there.

Thanks all

[evmori]

Brian,

 

If you have done research, where is it? The only update to your blog is a copy & paste post from this forum? That's not research.

 

What area has a 30-35% drop?

 

There are no facts on your site. None.

 

Like I said before, poorly done ticket item.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[John-in-KC]

Since I've said this before, I can safely say it here:

 

I would return the Cooking Merit Badge to the Eagle Required list. Consider the life skills taught in the MB program and on the Eagle list. IS NOT COOKING a useful skill for most men to have in the 21st Century, especially when homes and families are in constant flux?

[John-in-KC]

I've had the honor to sit several Eagle Boards of Review in the past 3 years. One of my favorite questions is:

 

"If you could remove one element from either the Scout Oath or Law, what would it be and why?"

 

NO YOUNG MAN has wanted to touch the Scout Oath. Most have explicitly said: Leave the Oath alone.

 

Several have commented on a certain redundancy between Friendly, Courteous, Kind and Cheerful in the Scout Law. I suspect that is more due to current English language usages than anything else. They all agree the concept expressed within Friendly "A friend to all and a brother to every other Scout" is vital, and, at the end of the day, they actually struggled to decide if removing elements was worth it.

 

 

[OldGreyEagle]

"You got me to thinking though. If Scouting is supposed to be a boy lead movement, why don't boys have control over the national organization and program? With adult mentor-ship of course."

 

To a degree there is such a program in Venturing. Each region has a president who is a youth in the program who serves for a year and then the national president is chosen from one of those four youths. At this time the choice is still adult driven, but at least youth participants are present at the regional and national level. (This message has been edited by a staff member.)

[emb021]

"If Scouting is supposed to be a boy lead movement, why don't boys have control over the national organization and program?"

 

Well, there is some, but not as much as I would like to see it. Only the OA, Venturing & Sea Scouting have any youth at leadership roles above the local unit.

 

In the OA, council-level lodges are run by youth elected by the youth. Lodges within Sections get together and elect (by the youth) youth to serve as Sectional officers. The Section Chiefs gather onces a year and elect amoung themselves the National Chief, National Vice-Chief, 4 Region Chiefs. Depending on what other National-level OA events are occuring, the other Section Chiefs will be elected to "Conference Vice-Chief" positions.

 

In Venturing, some councils have VOAs (or the like), hopefully run by youth-elected youth. These VOAs are hopefully planning and running any council-level Venturing events. There is also 4 Regional Venturing Presidents and a National Venturing President, HOWEVER, these positions are appointed by adults. In some Regions, there may be Area-level Venturing groups.

 

In Sea Scouts, some councils may have a Council Boatswain. But these may be either youth-elected or adult appointed. There may be Regional Boatswains, but are most likely adult appointed. The National Boatswain is adult appointed.

 

These youth officers sit on the OA, Venturing, or Sea Scouting committees at those levels. I am not aware of them setting on the top committees of their particular levels. So the youth have some influence at the National level, but its limited to their particular program.

 

I think in some countries that have some kind of 'national youth advisory committee' which gives input at the national levels.

 

[SR540Beaver]

My one gripe with Scouting is knowing who to contact at a higher (region or national, not district or council) level with ideas or concerns. It has always appeared to me that they are fairly well insulated from the lowly volunteers. Back in the day when Bob White was around, he always seemed to have an inside track to national and knew things that no one else seemed privvy to. I don't recall him ever sharing how he did, just the impression that he did. I know he attended and taught classes at Philmont and possibly had served on some committees or boards at the region and national level, so he had resources that others don't. If you go to the national site, you won't find anyone's name or a division that they work for. There is a mail address, a general e-mail address and a general switchboard number. That is it.

 

Just how does info from the unit level flow upstream? Anyone ever play the old gossip game where you whisper a message around a circle. By the time my idea makes it to someone at national (if it ever does), does it even resemble what I said? Probably not.

 

Just how does national keep an ear to the ground?