Campout Fees - Adult Leaders

[ASM59]

Hello,

 

I posted a response to another thread regarding how Troops are paying for fuel costs for outings. In that response I mentioned that our Troop also pays for the adult leaders cost for each outing. In response, it has been asked if the Adults who have their way paid submit the outing costs on their taxes. Also the thriftiness of those leaders has been called into question for allowing the Troop to pay their way. I should add that the Troop pays the Adult leaders' outing fees from the Troop funds and we do not charge extra to the boys' fees to cover it. The Troop has always looked at it as part of the cost of running the Troop. I don't think there is anything wrong with this practice. I give more in time and dollars to Scouting than I'll ever eat up in outing costs; this practice makes sense to me.

 

So, I'd like to know:

 

How many other Troops pay for the Leaders' Summer Camp and other outing costs?

 

If so how is that cost covered? added to the boys' fees? Troop funds?

 

Thanks,

ASM59

[GernBlansten]

Our troop pays for the registration fees for any adult who attends summer camp. THey also pay for the training of any adult. This comes out of the troop general fund.

Monthly campouts are not covered. In fact, we don't recover fuel costs, but maybe we should. I've had scouts offer to pitch in for gas, but we never required it. Dodgezilla is thirsty.

 

Normally, if I attend an event an drive, I pay my own way plus much more. Perhaps thats why I don't contribute to FOS as much as some think I should.

[WVCubDad]

ASM59 -

 

You raise a question I've had about tax deductions for Scout related expenses. I've been a member of Civil Air Patrol for 13 years and there are certain things that I can take deductions for - uniforms, training materials, certain milages, aircraft costs, etc.

 

Is there something similar for Cub/Boy Scouts? Is there a publication or reference (I'm sure there is )?

 

BTW, I was told when I went to turn in my Tiger Den Leader application that the Pack will cover my fee. So far, I've paid for activities myself (summertime pack stuff), but don't know if that will change as we start up full swing next week.

 

John

[packsaddle]

So far, leaders haven't been reimbursed for fuel unless they are hauling the trailer. If a trip is a long one, we try to take the church bus (we pay the gas when we do this). For summer camp the leaders don't have to pay the camp fee. I wouldn't mind seeing some fuel reimbursement but I have to admit...one reason I was able to rationalize buying the monster was to use it for the troop, so I guess this is the price. No complaints here.

Anyway, I've never deducted anything from my taxes although if there was some way to deduct for the hours.....

[EagleInKY]

I don't know of anything formal in writing, but here's the basics. Your mileage spent in volunteering for the program can be deducted at the charitable rate (I think it's around .14 per mile). Note, this is only miles where you were actually serving in some way. Driving your son and dropping him off at a troop meeting doesn't count. But if you are a leader and are there to help with the program, it does. The same goes for campouts and other mileage (driving to the scout office, roundtables, etc.).

 

As for personal expenses, you can deduct costs of expenses you would not have if you were not volunteering as a leader, things like training and uniforms. You can't deduct for equipment purchased, even if you'd never use that climbing rope, LED head lamp and gortex hiking boots outside of the scouting program. You own it, you get value out of it. The same goes for campout expenses and other items where you get the benefit of the expense.

[WVCubDad]

Thanks, that helps and is in line with what I know from CAP. I'll check the IRS publication as well.

 

John

[FireKat]

Our troop tries to cover costs of summer camps (including HA) by fundraisers. If the boy works most if them, the cost of camp is covered (rated to amount in funds). Our fundraising has been sucessful that we started covering adult fees also. This has taken a lot of stress off those adults with more than on boy going to camps. Lately, with the price of gas going up there has been reimbursements for fuel costs at the farther camps.

[Aquila calva]

ASM59, You are asking some of the best questions these days. And thanks to Eamonn for inspiring the good questions, and asking a few himself. After Eamonn's response in the other thread, I had the same question so I am glad ASM59 started this thread. There seems to be some difference in opinion and resulting advice.

 

Here is one real-life situation. Our troop had two crews go to Sea Base this past summer (the Out Island program). We had a great time! There were nine scouts and four adult leaders. I went along as an adult leader to help fill the BSA requirement for two adult leaders per crew. (By the way, I was in one crew and my son was in the other crew.) There were two crews, so there were four adult leaders, as required. I paid my own way, out of my own funds earned from my "day job," and the resulting expenses came to about $1,100. Three of the four adults also took vacation time from their jobs to go on this adventure, including me. I was happy to go along, but I would have been just as happy using my vacation time in a different way.

 

Last April I asked my tax-preparer about these sorts of Scouting expenses. (The tax-preparer is a CPA who used to work for the IRS.) She told me that these out-of-pocket expenses for volunteer assistance could be taken as a tax-deduction, especially since my participation (and the expense) was to help fulfill a requirement of the BSA. If the troop didnt provide the two-up adult leadership, then the scouts could not participate in the program. (If my tax-preparer is wrong about this, someone please tell me.)

 

I know that some troops, in this same situation, will pay the fees for the required adult leaders. These funds may come out of the troops general fund-raising and money-earning efforts, or the funds may be added to the cost of each of the scouts going on the adventure. In my example, this would have cost the nine participating scouts a total of about $4,400, or $489 each.

 

In the scenario where the leaders fees are paid by the troop, the fees are really coming out of the scouts pockets because any money that is not being used to directly assist in covering the youths expenses, is actually costing the youth more money. But it could be argued that providing adult volunteer leadership, and paying their expenses, is part of the cost of the Scouting program.

 

If the troop (or the individual scouts) pays the fees for the adult volunteers, does this constitute taxable income to the adult volunteer? Probably not, since it is part of doing the business of a tax-exempt volunteer organization. The volunteers time is probably worth more than the fees paid by the troop. If the scouts dont have willing and able volunteers, then the scouts dont have a program.

 

Now the question comes upWhat happens when an extra adult volunteer wants to go along on the trip? Are his/her expenses tax-deductible? Or, in the case where the troop (scouts) pay for the extra adult leader, is that really taxable income to that extra adult leader?

 

Oh, the tangled webs we weave!

 

Anyone have other advice?

 

[SR540Beaver]

In our troop, the adults pay the same rate as the boys for everything except for a $1 fuel surcharge per boy that was implemented this summer. Many of the summer camps we've attended offer a sliding scale of x number of free adults per x number of scouts and we take advantage of that when available. A decision has to be made as to who gets the free summer camp registration and the rest of the adults pay the adult rate for camp. The first free summer camp goes to the SM. Any additional free adults go to registered leaders who will be attending the full week.

[John-in-KC]

In my Troop, everybody pays.

[scoutingagain]

In our troop adults pay their own way on all monthly outings, just as the boys do.

 

As far a fuel costs go, standard monthly outings where we drive say less than 100 miles each way are not reimbursed.

 

Longer trips, we've gone to Virginia, Maine, Gettysburg, and DC where milage was in the range of 500 to 1500 miles total for each trip, we have included fuel costs in the cost of the outing. But while a driver will be reimbursed for fuel, they are also expected to pay the standard trip fee, which includes the cost of fuel.

 

The troop does pay for adult registrations and our council summer camp fee for youth campers includes the cost of meals for a certain number of adults. (I think it might be 2 adults for every 10 youth campers.) So our adult contingent that attends summer camp, doesn't usually pay.

 

SA

 

 

[infoscouter]

WVCubDad,

 

Our pack also pays the "fee" for an adult leader. By this we mean the $10.00 membership fee paid to the National Council. Event fees are reimbursed if the adult is attending and supervising Scouts. For instance, all of the adults who attened Webelos Camp this summer were reimbursed for their fees. Similarly, we paid the leader fees for Day Camp.

 

Note - we reimburse, not prepay. Unfortunately, we've had people sign up to attend and then flake out. Once a leader has attended an event, he or she is reimbursed. (This applies to training, both basic and supplemental as well).

 

We do not pay for adult fees to attend family activities, such as a Scout night at a sports venue. If the price were a hardship for a family we might consider it, but we've never been asked.

[Eamonn]

Beaver

I don't understand the " $1 fuel surcharge per boy" ?

I do use the IRS deduction for mileage.

When I attend a fund raising event, I get a tax receipt.

I may have paid $200.00 to attend the dinner, but I'm only allowed to deduct my donation. So if the cost of the dinner is $50.00, my deduction is only $150.00. A lot of times I'm asked to make a speech. This could I suppose be taken as Me having to attend the dinner and could be taken as an expense, as maybe I didn't want to attend in the first place?

But this is a volunteer organization, so I could just as easily have said that I wasn't going to attend.

A few weeks back I was trying to work out how much Sea Base in Florida would cost.

The Coral Reef Sailing week costs about $600.00 per person. The boat only holds seven and we need two deep leadership.

If the adults don't pay? Where does the $1,200 come from?

Do we expect the Scouts to pay an extra $240.00?

Is it right that the money comes from the Troop (or ship) funds?

I think I'd have a hard time looking anyone in the eye and asking them to support the Ship, while I knew that the money was being spent on my vacation and my hobby.

If the Ship were to pay for the adults entire trip it would pay out about $1,200.00.

If an adult were to accept the funding. He or she should declare the trip as income.

Sure I have gone with a very expensive trip, but we are trying to help our Scouts make ethical choices.

I just don't see how accepting trips and taking the money from the CO /Troop can be ethical. No matter what the amount is.

As volunteers we surely don't expect to get paid?

Eamonn.

[SR540Beaver]

E,

 

Basically, the boys pay $1 more for a campout than the adults. The $1 is used to offset a very small part of the cost of gas for the adults driving. The adult is already spending his own money to purchase gas for his car, so it would be senseless to make him pay $1 more for gas.

[Spiney Norman]

Our troop pays for attending adults on "normal" campouts. The exceptions being indoor winter camp or other special campouts. The Illini jamboree is one example, the cost of $45.00 includes tickets to the U of I football game. I really should save my gas receipts but I'm not in this for the tax deduction.