Shifting troop dynamics

[GernBlansten]

This topic has been hashed out here before, but I would like some advice on our specific issue.

Last nights meeting, I noticed a new dynamic developing. We had a large (19) number of new scouts cross over last spring. They are very enthusiastic and active. We have a smaller number (6) of 14-16 year olds who up until now have been very active. We have few scouts in between those groups (my son (13), the SPL is one of those).

Anyways, at the meeting, the older scouts started the meeting in their patrols but once the program started after announcements, they drifted off away from the meeting. The program was a preparation session for the next campout. Most of these older scouts are not attending the campout, in fact, they rarely attend any campouts anymore. Still doesn't excuse them from helping the younger boys plan the event.

I guess the dynamic I'm seeing isn't new. The older boys just don't want to do much with the new more immature scouts. The older guys are active in our Venture program but I think to the detriment of our troop. I feel they are slipping away from us.

Is there something magic we can do to engage these older scouts with our "new" young troop? Or is integrating them futile?

[campcrafter]

Interesting

 

I was just having this conversation this morning. We are dealing with very similar situation. Frankly I am coming to believe that maybe the upper age limit for boy scouts should be 14 or 15 and then move them on to a separate Venture Crew.

 

(Actually that is what I did as a youth at 15 moved on to an Explorer Post)

 

Yes the older boys should be helping the younger boys but they are 14-15 year olds, not a very altruistic age and not very interested in doing the same thing over again. They are bored. I know the program is set up for them to teach the younger ones and lead - but do you ever see that truly happening? I would say rarely.

 

Now the Venture crew could be brought in on occasion to help teach the younger scouts and the 16-17 y.o.s are the ones I see most likely to do that. But that time around 15 that's tough. I would say if you took a poll of the 15 year olds who are active leaders in their troop I would bet they are active Arrowmen. (Nothing to back it up just my observation) It is the boy who lives for Scouting and for whom it is not just another activity.

 

SO - My not so learned opinion is that it is futile, move them on to Venture and work to have a good troop with the 11-14 y.o.

 

cc

 

 

[Beavah]

Naturally, they're goin' to spend more of their time at the activity that is more age-appropriate for them, eh?

 

The question for you is whether you have anything for them to do anymore. If yeh want to keep 'em around, with a 13-year-old SPL, you're goin' to have to treat them all like ASMs. Invite them to scouters' meetings, and use them in that capacity.

 

Alternative is to move the troop to a new mode of operatin', with vertical patrols and a loose expectation that the SPL should have a 16-year-olds' level of skill and experience. Then those roles workin' with patrols become valuable again.

 

I've always thought that this was the big downside of the First Class/First Year emphasis. To get Star a boy needs to be a PL at age 11 or 12. Too soon, too early; it changes the nature of the job. SPL and Life at 13 and then what? Nowhere to go but da crew, eh? That seems to be what National wants these days, followin' the LDS model and turning Boy Scouting into a middle school program.

 

If that's where yer at, though, that's where you're at. Boy Scoutin' is a middle school program. No point in fightin' it. Welcome the crew members as alumni visitors and don't let it get your dander up.

 

 

[GernBlansten]

When my son was elected SPL by the troop, not one scout over 14 even ran for the position. The exiting SPL is 15 and none of his "peers" wanted to become SPL. Our troop is clearly sliding to support the younger scouts only. I would like nothing more than to figure out how to integrate the older boys and keep them engaged. Are there techniques/programs that are appropriate for young scouts but not boring for the older ones? Do troops run dual programs? Is that what Venturing is supposed to be? I agree though, Boy Scouts seems to be geared to middle school ages.

[Eamonn]

" Most of these older scouts are not attending the campout, in fact, they rarely attend any campouts "

I find this really sad and have to wonder why?

Eamonn.

[GernBlansten]

I should clarify Eamonn,

The older scouts don't attend most campouts since they have become high school age. These same scouts attended most of our campouts while they were in middle school. I really can't blame the program, the boys pick and plan each campout. During the last schedule planning meeting (December) these same boys were actively detailing out what they wanted to do and where to go. But since then, they rarely attend the events they planned. Perhaps they just resent the large number of young scouts in the troop and its no longer theirs.

[campcrafter]

Again GB I see simialrities between our troops.

 

THe older boys have not been showing up and everything is directed at the new boys, so the older boys are diinterested when they do show up and so next time don't show up. Vicious cycle.

 

I think at that age there are so many competing interests.

They really like Scouts - but if there is soemthing newer or more exciting - then that's where they'll go. But if nothing else is going on and the troop is doing something then they'll show up.

 

Boys that age treat their family the same way

 

 

And as this quote from the Venturing web site shows it has always been this way:

 

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If you really want to trace the roots of Venturing, you have to go way back. The need for a senior Boy Scout program probably surfaced the second day after Scouting started in the United States in 1910.

 

Actually, in the very first National Executive Board meeting report, there is a discussion about losing older boys. It was no surprise to our founders that older boys needed an age-specific program with challenges appropriate for them. Older boy programs cropped up across the country during those early years, causing the need for national action.

 

In 1935, the BSA created Senior Scouting, publishing the Guide to Senior Scouting. There were several options, including Explorers, Sea Scouts, and Air Scouts. In 1949, the BSA consolidated the senior programs, with the exception of Sea Scouts, into Explorer Scouts. At that time, a boy could be an Explorer in the troop or in a stand-alone unit called the Explorer post.

 

The Explorer advancement program included the Bronze Award, the Gold Award, and the Silver Award. Sound familiar? The last Silver Awards were earned in 1966 as Exploring began to turn more toward career emphasis. That is until the new Venturing Silver Award was reintroduced in August 1998. The new Venturing advancement award medals are very similar in design to their predecessors of the 1940s and 1950s.

 

What was true in 1920 is true today: Older teens need a program specific to their needs and abilities.

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I was going to comment that maybe you need to look at your program for these boys - but if they are the ones who came up with the ideas and planned it - then you may just have to accept that they are moving on.

 

Just omuo

 

cc