Role for ASM

[wildhog]

I'm not sure what to do with one of my ASMs. First a little background; he joined the troop a year and a half ago when his son crossed over and he was the WEBELOS leader for that den that crossed over. He was a Scout in his youth but did not make Eagle. He's very enthusiastic but doesn't seem to "get" the program.

 

About a year ago he held a Metalwork Merit Badge clinic; which the boys who participated in it loved. But he Troop ended up spending hundreds of dollars more than he budgeted for and we ended up with alot of equipment that we do not need; safety glasses, gloves, etc. He has also purchased MB books and other BSA literature that he then asked the Troop to pay for (even though we have a library).

 

Often times he shows up at meetings and outings with activities for the Scouts to do when the PLC already had other things planned. Basically he does things without asking or thinking things through.

 

What concerns me more is some of the things he said/did at summer camp. To start with he made letters that spell out our troop number out of sticks, each letter is about 1 foot by 2 feet. Again, without asking or telling anyone. He came up to camp at mid week in time for dinner. Afterwards he proceded to clean all of the cooking gear that his son's patrol was using. Another Scout was going to help by cleaning one of the Dutch ovens. The ASM harshly scolded this scout for attempting to put soap in the Dutch oven.

 

The ASM also complained loudly and in front of Scouts that a certain Scout always seemed to disappear when it was his turn for clean-up; then he said it again. On the last night our ASPL came up to me before the closing campfire to say that another Scout had taken off his uniform shirt and turned it inside out. Before I could say anything the ASM said "What are you telling him for, don't you know this is a boy run organization?" in a strong tone and then let out a chuckle.

 

On Friday at lunch I asked the boys if they wanted to come back to this camp next summer or if they wanted to go somewhere else. One patrol unanimously decided to return; the ASM's son's patrol was noncomittal (ASM kept telling me which camp we should go to while I was talking to these boys). When I asked those boys again on Saturday they said it didn't matter where they just wanted to go to summer camp, so I signed us up again for next year. On Friday night when the Scout families were visiting the ASM told them that we were not coming back to that camp next year.

 

He's been through all of the trainings and can recite all of the Patrol Method mantra; but when it comes to practicing those principles he falls short. His stance on "boy run" only seems to apply when he does not want to deal with something; like discipline and that is when the youth leaders ask for guidance the most.

 

I left some other things out but I think you get the idea about this ASM. I really question how much his son wants to be in Scouting, the feeling I get is that ASM is trying to relive his experience as a Scout. He's pushing his son to advance, the camp he suggested is where he went to summer camp.

 

Has anyone else dealt with a leader like this? I'm tempted to ask his wife how she deals with him at home.

 

Thanks

 

WildHog

 

Go SpeedGoats!

[nldscout]

wildhog

 

You don't tell us is , are you the SM? If so its time(past due) for a one on one discussuin maybe with the CC or another experiance ASM.

 

If things don't change, one of you have to go. You need to deceide who.

[Eagle69]

I think your comment "I really question how much his son wants to be in Scouting, the feeling I get is that ASM is trying to relive his experience as a Scout. He's pushing his son to advance, the camp he suggested is where he went to summer camp." hit the nail on the head. It sounds like he is trying to have it both ways: relive his days as a Scout, get to be the adult and give orders. I don't envy you because I expect anything you say or do will just make matters worse. The outcome would be that he would either create a major fuss with your group or pull out and go somewhere else, or just pull out completely and his son pays the price.

[oldsm]

But if he doesn't have the conversation, then all the boys will pay the price. I've seen it happen in my own troop. While you never really like losing anyone, sometimes it has to happen. In this case, I think that the group is more important than the individual.

[OneHour]

wildhog,

 

ASMs are there to assist the SM in carrying the various functions that the SM feels the need to have oversight. It is the SM who recruits the ASM. It is the SM who delegates the task. It is the SM who is the boss. It is the SM who can terminate the membership (in addition to the COR).

 

If you are the SM, are you willing to step him aside and hit the reality 2x4 on his head? As for his son, you will have to coach the SPL on how to deal with the situation and let him handle it. As for advancement, if he pushes his son to advance, that's his perrogative; however, I would have a hard time if he actually signs off his son's requirements.

 

Good luck,

 

1Hour

 

ps: Yes ... recently, we have the same man showed up at our troop. I had a post on this sometimes in July. By the way, I couldn't do anything other than talk to the SM and CC about it. To date, I have no clues whether or not they have a talk with the gentleman. My feeling (knowing that our SM and our CC are non-confrontational) is that nothing was done.

[Beavah]

Yah, the moral of the story is always be cautious about signin' up a den leader immediately as an ASM, eh? Best to give their son a little space to make Boy Scouting "his own", and the troop a little space to figure out if dad can make the transition to Boy Scout leadership from the Cub program.

 

Pull him aside and have "the conversation", for sure. And certainly, if he comes to a meetin' and tries to infringe on the PLC's plans, the SPL or you need to tell him "no, that's not what we're doing tonight." Ditto if he starts cleanin' boys' pots. If you plan on tryin' to keep him, consider assigning an "adult buddy" to him for a while, until he gets with the program.

 

 

[EagleInKY]

Soap in a DO!!! Now that is reason to yell at a scout.

 

But I digress. We've all had this guy in our troop. In fact, some of our ASMs are this guy next week, and a regular "Green Bar Bill" the next. Some get the program, some deal with the program, some resist the program. It sounds like your guy is somewhere between the latter two. He might eventually get it, but usually not for a while. Eighteen months is really not that long. I'm the SM and I think it took me nearly 3 years.... and I'm still learning.

[yellow_hammer]

I'm an ASM who recently joined the troop when my son crossed over so I can relate to the guy.

 

It takes a while to get out of the habit of doing things for the boys or fixing things for them after you've been like a third parent to them for a few years. It's been months and I still get, "You're doing it again." from the SM every so often. Talk to the guy about what he is doing and what he should be doing. If he is a reasonable person he'll understand and try harder to change his ways.

 

About whether he "is trying to relive his experience as a Scout"... maybe he had such a good time then that he wants the same for his son. That's the way I feel about it. Give him the benefit of the doubt here.

 

I would definitely let him know that he stepped out of bounds on the question of which camp the troop would go to. He is due for a tactful discussion to point out that you are the SM and he is not.

 

Good luck.

[Lynda J]

I have been an ASM for 4 years now. When we moved up I ask the SM. "What to you need me to do?" We worked out what he needed help with. Now it is simply we both take care of things. Do I always agree with him. No. We work those issues out. We do agree on one thing and that we are both in this for what is best for the boys. He is a great SM. The boys love and respect him.

We work well together. He is happy to have someone that can take over leadership when he has to be working. I enjoy doing it.

[ASM59]

Hello,

 

I've been an ASM for 5+ years now. Similar to Lynda, I had a discussion with the SM (no longer with the Troop) regarding my role and what I could do to help. For the first year or so, I'd always check with him before doing much, so I'd be sure not to interfere with his wishes. I also had a "deal" with some of the other dads who were ASM's that I'd take care of anything to do with their son (including advancements and any correction/guidance) if they'd take care of the same with my son; that way my son wouldn't have to feel like Dad is always getting onto him on Scout outings.

 

As far as your situation, I agree that someone needs to have an one-on-one discussion with this ASM to gently inform him that he is not working in the spirit of the program and see if he is willing to make some changes.

 

ASM59