Eagle69 Posted July 5, 2006 Share Posted July 5, 2006 In the most recent Boys Life there is an "Advice" Column where readers can send in questions and get answers from a guy and a girl. In this month's issue there is a letter from an older scout talking about the fact that he got in trouble for new scout "Initiations". He didnt' see anything wrong with it and it was something they had "always" done. The two columists gave him a reply and offered some other ideas for things to do to new scouts. I was surprised that they recommended any kind of activity that involved singling out the new scouts and having them do something different than the others. To me this is still hazing, which I thought was strictly against BSA rules, yet here it was being advocated in Boys Life. Did anyone else see this column and am I out of line in my thinking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evmori Posted July 5, 2006 Share Posted July 5, 2006 We have discussed hazing in these forums & the discussion gets pretty heated! Just because someone is singled out doesn't make it hazing. Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10 Still looking for that left-handed shore line! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beavah Posted July 5, 2006 Share Posted July 5, 2006 I was surprised that they recommended any kind of activity that involved singling out the new scouts and having them do something different than the others. Yeh mean like putting them in a new scouts patrol? I still think the worst hazing-like activity is the first day swim check at camp. I do prefer pranks that get played on everybody, startin' with the older boys. If the young ones see the older guys get "pranked" and respond with laughter, then when later it happens in a "light" way to them, they have a great story of fun and triumph over adversity to tell for weeks. Don't really care for the smoke-shifter and shore line stuff, though. Too much like takin' advantage of the ignorant at their expense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SR540Beaver Posted July 5, 2006 Share Posted July 5, 2006 Eagle69, I've not taken the opportunity to look at the latest copy of Boy's Life. Could you elaborate on the two columnist's ideas for things to do to new scouts? Was it tricks to play on them like was already being done or ideas of things to do WITH new scouts to make them feel included? Ed, Being singled out has nothing to do with hazing. Hazing is hazing regardless of the number of people being hazed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoutingagain Posted July 5, 2006 Share Posted July 5, 2006 I must admit this has my curiosity up as I havn't seen the article either. I think we also need to keep in mind there is a difference between hazing and initiation. The OA has an initiation ceremony and it shouldn't be confused with hazing and I would see nothing wrong with a Troop or unit initiation ceremony for new campers, as long as it didn't cross the line into hazing. An initiation should single person out for recognition as an honor, not as a source of ridicule or embarrassment. As Beavah noted, new scouts are singled out for all kinds of reasons and I agree the swim test is one of the more intimidating activities for new scouts at camp. Not to mention the drill Sgt. like instructions given by waterfront staff prior to the test! Then a scout is required to take a swim test in front of the entire world to watch. For marginal swimmers it can be intimidating. SA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evmori Posted July 5, 2006 Share Posted July 5, 2006 SR540Beaver, I would agree. But having someone or a group do something different isn't in and of itself hazing. Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10 Now where did I put that left-handed flashlight? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWScouter Posted July 5, 2006 Share Posted July 5, 2006 Now where did I put that left-handed flashlight? It's probably with the Sidehill Gulcher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle69 Posted July 6, 2006 Author Share Posted July 6, 2006 Ok, I'm working from memory here, but the columnists suggestions strictly applied to new scouts. There was mention of making them wear their clothes inside out and having them having to say certain things when responding to a question from an older scout. Nothing physical, but still things that only they were required to do and that would make them stand out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cajuncody Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 I do have a left handed smoke shifter, it was given to me at Woodbadge. Kristi I used to be an Eagle, now I am an Eagle waiting for my beads Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evmori Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 Ah, cajuncody, but is it a three-way left handed smoke-shifter with a hickory handle? Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10 "I'm a talon you, we're the Eagles!" NE-V-120 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cajuncody Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 No hickory handle, and only a single, really simple yet effective device. It is a small diam. copper tube about 8 inches long with a short length of flexible vinyl tubing slipped over one end. Put the copper end down where your start your flame and blow gently thru the other end to encourage "flaming". So much better than getting down with your head nearly on the groung to blow on the young fire. Plus I always have a smoke shifter should some young scout need one. I even presented my father with a pipe strecher once. A coupling and another peice of pipe. Kristi The Eagles are coming, THe Eagles are Coming Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoutingagain Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 "There was mention of making them wear their clothes inside out and having them having to say certain things when responding to a question from an older scout." I'm a little suprised at this. This seems pretty close to what I would consider hazing. SA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SR540Beaver Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 SA, It all depends on how it is used. Those suggestions take me back to freshman orientation at Oklahoma Baptist University where you had to wear a beanie the first week and could be stopped by upper classmen to quote Karip or the alma mater on demand. Karip goes like this: Ka-rip Ka-rap Ka-riplo typlo tap Oh! Oh! Rincto lincto hio-totimus Hopula scipula copula gotimus Chink-to-lack Chink-to-lee Ka-willa, Ka-walla, Ka Victory Oh! Oh! Hoogula choogula choogula can. Ragula tagula melican man Let'er go rip, let'er go ruse Tingula Tangula, turn'em a-loose Zip! Bang! OBU! The faster and louder you say it, the better. Orientation was "regulated" by upper classmen in robes called Bop Cops. I can't remember anyone being upset over any of it. It was fun and games for all involved. As far as I know, the tradition continues 27 years after I graduated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grampye Posted July 10, 2006 Share Posted July 10, 2006 I haven't been involved in any of the "hot" discussions, so I'm not aware of the history of this topic. I would guess that because it did cause animated discussion, the BSA has not been very clear on how to interpret this rule. I recently had an incident in my troop. I am the relatively new Scoutmaster ( 15 years) of a troop with over 50 years of charter. At a campout a few months ago the older boys snuck into the younger boys tents while they were asleep and "painted" their faces using magic markers. None of the older boys were painted, and not all of the younger ones. In addition, one boy was awakened by being slapped in the face with a dead fish. Some of the younger ones it was done to laughed. Some didn't. The initial parent reaction was mixed, with at least one changing from "boyish pranks" to "a bad idea" when they heard other parents sharing their boy's reactions. Apparently this has been going on for a long time. At summer camp, a couple of young men who had been members of the troop dropped in. We were standing around the camp fire and someone mentioned that one of the new boys had fallen asleep in his chair. One of the guests commented that perhaps it was time for some "war paint". It seems to me that it would be difficult to find a point in the Scout Law that promotes this kind of activity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScoutNut Posted July 10, 2006 Share Posted July 10, 2006 Grampye - What was your response, as SM, to these incidents? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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