Scoutings Gray Areas

[firecrafter]

"National Youth Leadership Training has a session about putting on a campfire program, how to plan them, how to run them, the six items listed on troop 42 website are in the NYLT session as inappropriate skit material. I do not think this makes it BSA policy."

 

What NYLT materials suggest is not always what is being practiced. My son just returned from NYLT. I was disappointed in most everything I heard or saw. Of the 4 Scouts we sent-all bright, good kids-every one had a bad experience.

 

The topper for me, and by no means the only problem, was this...After Jr. staff members pulled a middle of the night prank on my son's patrol, the SPL visited the patrol trying to intimidate the Scouts into "not mentioning it" to anyone. He told the patrol they would be required to stay at camp an extra day, to answer questions, and fill out formal paperwork. and "And no one wants to do that". Same young man (SPL) gave a talk on being Trustworthy at the closing ceremony.

 

Now, the prank was no big deal, nothing of the variety being discussed here. But the SPL's actions were inexcusable IMHO. Might mention here he was taking to a patrol of Life and Eagle Scouts. My son was sure discouraged by SPL's actions.

 

On a side note, I also saw a male adult district leader walking around in his bathtowel (nothing more) in plain sight of the guest parking lot and the scouts. Where is YPT in this senario?

 

I already mentioned the issues with dispensing meds at camp...

 

I think individuals in their own troops have to raise the bar and try to get back to standards of good behavior in scouting. We can't look to counsil/district for our example. At least in our district, the leaders seem to behave worse than the scouts in most cases. The Adult leaders at troop & pack levels here pretty much know they are on their own. Critical? Maybe. But I love Scouting and get tired of seeing the ideals abused or just ignored. It's up to each of us to do our best and set an example for the scouts we come into contact with.

firecrafter

 

[Region 7 Voyageur]

At the Wood Badge Course that I was a participant in we learned about gray areas and what was to be avoided in campfire skits and songs. That very night the staff put on a campfire song/skit that involved cross-dressing. It is very had to take a lession seriously if the teachers do not lead by example.

 

My concept of what is acceptable is probably different that many scouters. It takes a lot to offend me. Usually if I see a bad skit my comment is "I didn't like it" or "I didn't get it". If you liked it or got it, good for you. I may tell you why I did not like it. (I may not)

 

I am a Swede, Catholic, male, German, Bohemian (Czech), a former Lutheran and overweight. I have laughed and enjoyed jokes that poke fun at all of these groups.

 

Ed, in a way the Boy Scouts do own the song "God Bless America". Irving Berlin gave the royalties to the BSA and GSUSA. Check this link out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_Bless_America

 

(This message has been edited by Region 7 Voyageur)(This message has been edited by Region 7 Voyageur)

[evmori]

Actually, Region 7 Voyageur, all Irving Berlin did was give the royalties to the BSA, not the rights to the song.

[Vicki]

firecrafter, I am so sorry that your scouts had a bad experience at NYLT. What was done there was obviously not any part of the Scout Oath and Law. As I get ready to leave for Pack and Paddle (an older-scout opportunity as part of NYLT), I know the SPL and TGs I'll be working with. I also remember the guys I worked with last summer. That sort of behavior just wouldn't happen. Our youth director would hit the roof, even if the guys thought of doing it (which they wouldn't).

 

I hope you report this to the youth director (or course director, if you don't have a person specifically working with youth).

 

Vicki

[fling1]

I'm enjoying this thread. A couple of data points:

My son was at NYLT this summer, and apparently they also learned about gray areas. The result was not so much that all gray areas were avoided -- merely that when "grey" material was used, it would get a response from the group as they all sang out "gray area!". It seemed it made it OK to use the material so long as you said "gray area" afterward. Funny, really.

The best example at the Wed campfire was the "saloon" skit (where the director has the actors go through a scene at the saloon several times and of course there is no film in the camera when they finally get it right). One scene was "with feeling" and they played it up very funny - like a movie on Lifetime. The director hated it (of course) and part of his critisism was that it had "waaay too much affection for an all-male cast." The crowd immediately crowed, "Gray area!" It just made it funnier, really.

At summer camp, the Reservation director let us know that they were following the guidelines for gray area stuff, so there would be no references to bodily functions, among other things. (He rolled his eyes and said, "I know, I know, but that's the way we are doing it.") He encouraged us to submit skits for the Friday campfire, but required that we clear them with the Program Director by Thursday, including performing it for him so any censorship could be taken care of.

The result? Exactly one troop-supplied performance at Friday's campfire. If you would have told me that MY troop would be the ONLY troop to contribute to a campfire program, I would have laughed myself silly (our troop is traditionally reluctant to participate in these things -- too cool for school and all). But that is exactly what happened. (We performed a funny blues song by Lonnie Mack and *killed*! A real highlight for me.)

My personal feeling is that censoring "bodily functions" is over the line. No "important papers" or "hot meal" or "gotta go wee" skits? Silly policy. Eventually, the troops will sign up for campfire and the program director will ask, "do you guys want to do 'invisible bench' or 'froggy'?"

 

[OldGreyEagle]

Maybe, just maybe, troops should be encouraged to write new fresh material and not redo skits that might have been funny the first 100 times they were presented

[nldscout]

The problem with this document being used to define grey area's is

 

1. Its not an official document

2. No one knows who wrote it. We asked our NE region rep and they don't know.

 

3. It appears to be just one persons opinion, notice no one at national has ever issued anything like it.

 

We have totally disregarded this in our area and when a CE brought a copy to a district Camporee planning meeting we politely said thanks but you can keep it. We can deceide for ourselves.

[evmori]

The problem with this document being used to define grey area's is

 

1. Its not an official document

2. No one knows who wrote it. We asked our NE region rep and they don't know.

 

3. It appears to be just one persons opinion, notice no one at national has ever issued anything like it.

 

Exactly!

[oldsm]

Hear! Hear! Gray areas are only an opinion and not official Policy? That's some of the best news I've heard in a while. Even the boys are complaining about the prohibitions on so-called gray areas and political correctness.

 

EveryBODY uses TP, goes "wee", etc. To all the PC crowd, I say "Get over it. Let the boys have some fun. After all, I'll bet that every one of you chuckled or, more likely, guffawed at nearly identical scenarios when you were scout age. Don't deprive today's youth of this important part of being boys and growing up."

 

I can't wait for the next camporee.

[nldscout]

what we did to squash this grey area letter was challange anyone who quoted it to produce a signed copy by a national or regional represntitive. No one has ever been able to. One DE attempted to follow up with council and region to no avail.

 

BSA has lots of rules, this is just not one of them.

[NeilLup]

The Gray Areas document was written, as Kudu's site outlines, by Doug Fullman who is Assoc. Regional Director for Program of Northeast Region. The Gray Areas document is found, among other places, in the Wood Badge Staff Guide which is an official, approved, reviewed, National BSA document. The information is presented as training which is to be given to leaders at every level of the BSA.

 

Eagle Foot, if you believe you were blown off by the camp staff, I might be inclined to have a friendly conversation with my Scout Executive (not District Executive; the top guy.) I would frame it in terms of a question saying "I understand that in Scouting, we are trying to be very careful in Gray Areas and in not doing anything in campfires, skits, etc. which can be denigrating to anyone. At campfire at summer camp as such and such a time, there were some skits which seemed to be way over the line on Gray Areas and the skits were run by staff. When I mentioned this to the staff, they really didn't pay any attention. Am I the one who is wrong here and worrying too much, or am I right about these Gray Areas? If I am right, could you please mention this to them as they probably will pay attention to you."

 

Give the person who has responsibility the chance to do something about it. I suspect that the SE has no idea that this is happening. But perhaps I am wrong.

[SueM]

Just for discussion sake..this is what the WB Staff Guide says:

 

"Appropriateness - Although skits and stunts can have a wide range of subjects and treatments, they must always be appropriate. A good test is to hold them up against the Scout Law's friendly, courteous and kind. Any skit or stunt that doesn not meet that test has no place in a campfire program. Skits and stunts should never embarrass or demean anyone or any group of people.

 

There are several gray areas that are best simply to avoid: Underwear, toilet paper, water, inside jokes, Use of alcohol, drugs or tobacco, cross-gender impersonations."

 

 

It sounds more like these are "suggested guideline" rather than outright prohibitions.

 

[FScouter]

"It sounds more like these are "suggested guideline" rather than outright prohibitions."

 

That would seem to be right in line with our mission: prepare young people to make ethical and moral CHOICES by instilling in them the values of the Scout Oath and Law.

[Zahnada]

"Scouts acting "Gay" is not funny to me. There is nothing funny about imitating those whose ranks are filled with pedophiles."

 

I'm really surprised that this comment has been allowed to slide for this long with no one addressing it. I don't want to hijack the thread. But I do feel it is necessary to address the fact that the connection between homosexuality and pedophilia is not a position stated by the BSA. It is also not a connection based on any scientific data or fact (actually there is strong evidence to just the contrary).

 

If you feel skits involving homosexuality are inappropriate because it mocks a group - I agree. If you feel that the Bible specifically condemns homosexuality - fine, that's a conversation for another time.

 

But if you disagree with skits about gays because of their relation to pedophilia - that's just misinformed.

 

And I certainly hope the author of the original quote doesn't use that rationale around his scouts for why gay skits aren't appropriate.