Scoutings Gray Areas

[Fuzzy Bear]

Humor has grown, changed and matured over the years. Dragging a cowguy across the cattle ranch behind a hoss is no longer seen as amusing or funny but unkind and frankly rather dangerous. We must be continually on our guard.

 

I collect Boys' Life magazines and am continually reminded about the ever changing winds of humor by reading "Think and Grin" or any of the cartoons. It is surprising how funny some things are even 50 or more years later and how much some of it isn't. Maybe I just don't "get it" or one would have had to been there to understand and appreciate it or maybe humor has changed for me or humor has changed me.

 

Humor should make people laugh. If instead, it makes somebody feel bad about themselves, then the point is abuse, anger or bullying and that is not demonstrative of good Scout behaviors.

 

[Lisabob]

Ed, please tell me that you see a distinction between "poking fun at one another" in a friendly way, and jokes that rely upon a person's race, ethnic background, religion, gender, physical form, orientation, etc., to masquerade as humor. The former can actually build camaraderie, but does require personal knowledge of the target, circumstances, and the target's sense of humor, in order to work (for the audience to "get it" and to avoid going too far and really upsetting the target). The latter is often about power, insecurity, ignorance, negative stereotyping, forming a false "us vs. them" dichotomy. These kinds of jokes are often clearly derogatory and simply serves to alienate people from the scouting movement. I fail to see how that can be acceptable or desirable and no, I do NOT think this is the same as the oft-maligned notion of "political correctness." You know those bumper stickers that tout scouting's "traditional values?" Well I don't see how such offensive behaviors fit with those values in any kind of a good way. Those certainly aren't the values I had in mind when I agreed to sign up my 7 year old as a cub scout and these days if my son (who is old enough to know better) told those types of jokes in my presence, he'd get a slap at the very least.

 

I do agree though, that it might be taken too far. About a year ago we were told by various council officials that the song "G-d bless my underwear" was no longer acceptable for cubs, as it was offensive. In all honesty I don't see it, unless perhaps one singled out a boy and displayed his ragged under-clothing or something in the process. I do not know if this was part of a regional "grey area" policy or not. (of course, there are also plenty of other really silly songs to sing so perhaps no great loss there)

 

FB, I quite agree but sometimes one does need to choose one's tactics. Rather than gratifying this guy with the immediate response he clearly desired, between WB weekends I had a quiet chat with his troop's SM and CC, both of whom were also fellow WB'ers from the same course and who had become good friends of mine. They were clearly mortified. Perhaps even more so because at the time I, and the other webelos den leader from our pack who was also in the same WB course, had close to 20 webelos scouts eager to become boy scouts, and I made it clear that we couldn't encourage them to go to a troop where adult leaders behaved in such a way. I don't know what they told him, but the guy kept his pants on in public the second weekend.

 

And by the way that was one of the relatively less offensive things that I have witnessed/heard at various scouting events. Some of the other tidbits, often masquerading as "humor," were just breath-taking in their offensiveness. You'd think adults would know better and wouldn't need a "Gray Areas" policy but then you meet a few blockheads along the way. Maybe, just maybe, one or two of those folks will read such a policy and at least think twice?

 

Lisa'bob

[evmori]

Here's the way I see it.

 

The main idea of humor is to make someone laugh. And in order to do so, one must gear the humor to the level of the audience. At BSA camps, the audience is boys ages 10 to 18! What they think is funny is probably very different from what I think is funny.

 

As long as the humor isn't mean spirited or attacking someone, there should be no problem. One year at summer camp, my Troop did a skit at closing campfire. We poked fun at the entire camp from check-in to med checks to swim checks to campsite inspections! Another year we poked fun at the swim check procedure. Both years we got a ton of congrats from the campers AND staff.

 

Gays & dressing like females & the like are the gray areas. What isn't a gray area? Would making fun of the way someone dresses be a gray area? How about the way they chew their food? Or maybe the way someone walks? What about poking fun at a profession like doctors or teachers? Are those gray areas?

 

Skits like JC Penney & the Ugly Girl Scout aren't meant to offend anyone. But not everyone will get the joke. So one might get offended. That can happen with humor. That can happen with anything. It's called life.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[packsaddle]

It is possible to have a 'clean' sense of humor. The skit in which a group of camp staff mimics what goes through the minds of a group of falling rain drops is an example. The humor is not found in the acting, nor is it found in the action...but rather in the clever twist of anthropomorphism applied to drops of water. The humor is in the unexpected thought and the surprise idea. It is a gift from a creative mind that allows everyone to be a little more creative themselves.

[dan]

National Youth Leadership Training has a session about putting on a campfire program, how to plan them, how to run them, the six items listed on troop 42 website are in the NYLT session as inappropriate skit material. I do not think this makes it BSA policy.

[evmori]

I just thought of this as it fits with the absurdity going on. We were told that it is no longer acceptable to use the acronym PADBALLS when teaching the safe swim part of the swimming MB. Why? Because it contained the word "balls" and that could be considered a sexual connotation.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[Fuzzy Bear]

PS has mentioned the clean sense of humor. It is true that is our goal. I want to use a Day Camp analogy to demonstrate. We used water bombs from a safe distance, mostly to protect the smallest from harm from possibly the biggest or the strongest. The Scouts would lob their water balloons and some would get wet, making for a fun activity. The problem came when one or two would cross the line and get closer to their victim and then everyone ran at each other. Retaliation was swift and the fun escalated exponentially. The point was to have a little bit of fun but the boys failed to control it until someone was hit up close and personal, then it was no longer fun. Boys sometimes cross the boundaries of fun without thinking that someone will get hurt. Skits likewise should always be checked by the leader prior to the presentation at the campfire. Hopefully, the leaders are aware of the boundaries.

[ScoutNut]

OK, I am a bit confused. I can see cross dressing as being inappropriate. The Ugly Girl Scout I have never heard of. However I don't see a problem with a skit like the Ugliest Man, when everyone in the skit knows the script.

 

Looking at the NE Region memo, it does not mention skit's like Ugliest Man, or even the Motorcycle Gang. It does, on the other hand put J.C. Penny under nudity/underwear, but goes on to say it would be ok if done in a swim suit. HUH??? What leader has ever had a Cub Scout (or Boy Scout) running around in public either naked or in their underwear??? That's not inappropriate, that's right up there with sexual abuse.

 

Then, under toilet paper, they have The Viper listed as being ok only if done with paper towels & Windex. This is another big HUH??? Every time I have seen, or read, this it has had the punchline of a window washer. Not quite sure I want to know what else it could be wiping.

 

Maybe it's just me, but if the folks in the NE Region need to be told that Scouts running around naked or wiping back ends with toilet paper is wrong, but apparently vicious motorcycle gangs beating people up is ok, then I think I will stay here in the Midwest, thank you very much!

[Jeffrey H]

There will always be gray areas and sometimes folks will get offended even with a "Rated G" skit. This skit does not sound "Rated G". Scouts acting "Gay" is not funny to me. There is nothing funny about imitating thosewhose ranks are filled withpedophiles.

QUOTE BY EAGLE FOOT: "When mentioned to the staff they just laughed...and brushed it off. The values I have learned in Scouting are not of this kind of kinky behavior. When the district talks now...it's gone a be...talk to the hand...practice what you preach."

Here is theprimary problem. A complaint by a sincere Scout Leader was "brushed off" by camp staff. BIG MISTAKE. Don't bite the hand of thosewho love and care about Scouting, especially those who desire to acutallypractice the Scout Oath & Law.

[infoscouter]

A couple of observations:

 

The "Gray Areas" document is not new. I first saw a version more than 10 years ago, the first time I attended (Central Region)National Camping School. When I attended the same course two years ago, I also received the same document.

 

So, the ideas presented in the document have been around for some time. This may be why ScoutNut has never seen the older more offensive versions of some of the referenced skits - they've died a natural death, due to the fact that they crossed the line.

 

Lisabob refers to a separate policy regarding "God Bless my Underwear." For at least the last three editions, the Cub Scout Leader Book and the last two editions of the Cub Scout Song Book have included a prohibition on changing the words to patriotic songs. These aren't part of the "Gray Areas", per se. It's more a matter that there's a feeling that singing alternate words to certain patriotic songs is felt to be disrespectful of our country's traditions.

 

What's kind of startling to me is that any of this comes as a surprise to a trained leader. This information is in common circulation in my council, and has been for some time. As I said, I've been aware of the "Gray Areas" document for more than 10 years. I have used and taught these concepts in University of Scouting and Rountable sessions. I'm not positive, but I believe some of it is also included in the new version of Group Meeting Sparklers.

[KC9DDI]

EagleFoot,

If the summer camp staff blew you off, I would definately contact the camp director and/or the council program director. The campfire program was clearly inappropriate, and I would hope that it would be addressed at a council level.

 

I agree that there is a lot of "grey area" in deciding what skits are appropriate for a campfire. I think a lot depends on the audience - a summer camp's campwide campfire program should be different than at a casual patrol or troop overnight, which should be different from the program at a Webelos visit weekend, etc.

 

Dan pointed out that some BSA publications, eg the NYLT syllabus, list areas that should be avoided. Some are obvious, such as references to drugs/alcohol, etc. Others were more controversial: cross-gender impersonations, for example. These kinds of guidelines caused some discussion and argument among the staff as to which skits we could do. For instance, the "I've Come to Marry the Princess!" skit (my favorite EVER!) includes "cross-gender impersonations." Everytime I've done this skit, the extent of the impersonation has been silly stuff like a wig made out of twine, a dress made from a rain fly, neckerchief slides as earings, etc. (The male characters wore equally rediculous items including cook-pot crowns, a scepter made from a hiking stick and nerf football, etc). Now, was this degrading or disrespectful to women? I personally don't think so. The purpose of impersonating a woman was to simply show that this character is female. The humor in the skit comes from two guys trying to act out six different characters at once, not from degrading stereotypes. However, according to these "guidelines", this skit would be inappropriate.

 

Why can't we just use common sense, respect others, and run through the Scout Law if we have any questions?

[Kudu]

Almost a hundred years ago Baden-Powell, the inventor of Boy Scouting, found it necessary to write rules against wearing women's clothing while playing Wide Games in towns:

 

The game may be played in a town with two houses chosen as starting-place and besieged town respectively, and the dispatch-runner can adopt any disguise (except that of a woman), so long as he wears the rag pinned to his shoulder. See:

 

http://inquiry.net/outdoor/games/b-p/scouting.htm

 

Of course B-P was well-known for wearing women's clothing while performing comedy when he was in the army. Tim Jeal may have even included a photograph in his biography Baden Powell.

 

Cross-dressing has probably always been considered funny to everyone but religious fundamentalists. Shakespeare used it in his comedies.

 

The term "gray area" means neither black or white. The Northeast document notes: "Can be great fun. Area that most probably fits into the 'not what is done, but how it's done' category."

 

The Northeast Region document was written by Douglas C. Fullman, see The Inquiry Net:

 

http://www.inquiry.net/outdoor/campfire/gray_areas.htm

 

A number of years ago our female Assistant Scoutmaster tried to stamp out fart humor without much success. Geoffrey Chaucer used it in the "Canterbury Tales," and while most of the English language has changed since the 14th century, the spelling of this word remains the same.

 

The acronym PADBALLS is no longer used in summer camps around here for the reason that Ed cites. Nobody can remember the new politically-correct acronym. Perhaps natural selection will solve this.

 

Kudu

 

[ozemu]

I crossed the line at work a couple of weeks ago. Apparently my saying that a leech up her nose when she was a baby might explain why she is short was taken way more seriously than I had imagined. Got a letter from the 25 year olds mother.

 

Naturally I apologised. I regret the effect but see it as a miss rather than crime. Others would have recieved this with a well aimed rebuttle. But there is a bit more history to it that none of us were aware of.

 

In my book funny is when the victim laughs. She didn't. The lesson really is how to recieve offense with dignity and how to make ammends with same. The 'incident' is an opportunity for genuine discussion among all parties - but no soap boxes pls.

 

But my humour is fairly Monty Pythonish. Who is not the target of those guys?

 

Actually the Goodies 'World Domination' MB sketch was pretty funny too.

 

[evmori]

Lisabob refers to a separate policy regarding "God Bless my Underwear." For at least the last three editions, the Cub Scout Leader Book and the last two editions of the Cub Scout Song Book have included a prohibition on changing the words to patriotic songs. These aren't part of the "Gray Areas", per se. It's more a matter that there's a feeling that singing alternate words to certain patriotic songs is felt to be disrespectful of our country's traditions.

 

Actually, the BSA has no control over the song "God Bless America". If a Pack wants to sing the humorous version "God Bless My Underwear" they can. The BSA doesn't own the song. Irving Berlin does. He wrote it.

 

I have never heard of anyone complaining "God Bless my Underwear" was disrespectful to our country's traditions. This is another example of the PC crowd run amok! Bring back PADBALLS!

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

Happy Birthday USA!

[Fuzzy Bear]

When people think they have lost their sense of humor it might really only be that they have lost their sense of timing. FB