Is this "usual" Troop policy?

[Vicki]

SaintCad, I don't think the manner of the breakup is relevant in the sense you mean in your post. Personally, I think it's an opportunity to take the high road and fulfill the Scout Oath, Golden Rule (pick one) in the best sense of the words - handle it fairly no matter how the other side is behaving.

 

Harder to do than to say, I know. That's what makes it the high road.

 

Vicki

[scoutingagain]

The issue of troop funds and distrubution has been well covered by others. I will just say I second what Vicki just said. The honorable thing to do, regardless of how the unit split is to work towards getting boys to camp.

 

Taking a high road response to a "heck with you" separation provides a learning experience for both the boys and adults involved and demonstrates the true meaning of the scout law. The alternative just perpetuates petty, unscoutlike behaviour.

 

SA

 

 

[frznpch]

I just want to say that I'm glad I decided to join this forum, because it makes me feel better to read that so many of you feel, as I do, that the most important thing here is that the boys get to camp. This experience has been quite disheartening, watching a group of adults lose it's priorities. I found out today that the decision regarding the camp is in the hands of the Scout Exec, and I hope that a good solution comes of it. One of the hardest parts of this has been the waiting around. Camp is coming up and we're in a sort of limbo. I'll just be glad when it's over!

[CalicoPenn]

I certainly don't envy that Scout Executive - if it were me, I would have taken a pass and encouraged both sides to come to an agreement if possible - I just wouldn't put myself into the middle of the dispute as it's frankly a lose-lose for the Scout Exec - no matter what he decides, someone is going to get angry with him (or her).

 

EagleinKY - I'm curious (in a concerned fashion) about how your unit's individual accounts work - I understand the basics - an individual Scout gets a credit to his account based on his fundraising ability AND a family can deposit funds into the Scout's account. My question (concern) is are these funds then co-mingled in the Scout's account or do you have two separate Scout accounts for each individual that they can choose to draw from? I see a potential problem with co-mingling dollars raised through fundraising and the Scout's own dollars being deposited in the account - if the Scout leaves, how would you determine what funds are his and what funds are the Units? For illustration, suppose a Scout gets a credit for $100 in fundraising bucks and deposits $100 of his own money in the account - then withdraws from the account only $100 for Scout related activities then decides to leave for another unit, or moves, or just plain quits - does he get a check for $100 because he claims he spent the funds that were credited from fundraising or does he get nothing because the Troop claims he spent the money he deposited? Or is the difference split?

 

In theory, I like the idea of a Scout being able to directly deposit money into a Scout Account but I worry about the practice if the money is co-mingled with money that comes from fundraisers. I was thinking it be good to have two Scout Accounts per Scout but then wonder if it would really be worth the bookkeeping hassle - I would think you would have to develop some sort of signed withdrawal slip system that would clearly spell out if the intention of the Scout is to draw down from the fundraising funds or from the deposited funds.

 

Maybe its not really an issue, but I can't help but think that most states would take a very dim view of co-mingling funds if it ever came to their attention.

 

CalicoPenn

[CalicoPenn]

Has anyone else picked up on the implications of Eamonn's post about the lad who has $4,000 in his Scout Account that is about the join his Sea Scout unit? Many units with individual Scout Accounts do have a policy that allows the Scout's account to travel with him to the next unit. In this case, it appears that as a Cub, this lad had a Scout Account that went with him to his Troop, and that account has grown to tremendous proportions while in the Troop and the account is now going to travel with him to his Sea Scout Ship (does the Ship also have individual Scout Accounts?). If the dollars were minimal, say $100 or so, I'd say no biggie - but Four Thousand Dollars? That's a lot of money. The question I have to ask is how likely is it that this Scout will spend $4,000 on Scouting related outings while in the Ship? What happens if this lad decides to leave Scouts when he turns 16? That money becomes the Ships (and technically would become the Ships the moment that it was transferred from the Troop - and if the Ship doesn't have individual accounts?).

 

Yes, the lads father had a great deal to do with his success in fundraising, but its the Troops fundraising (and prior to that the Packs) - not the families. In essence, the Ship is getting the benefit of the Troop's fundraising efforts. I don't know that as a Ship's Treasurer, I'd want that money either - not unless there was an agreement that the money left over after the lad left the Ship went back to the Troop.

 

Granted, this is an extreme example, but it sure does nicely point out the negatives to allowing Scout Accounts to travel from unit to unit.

 

CalicoPenn

[Beavah]

Granted, this is an extreme example, but it sure does nicely point out the negatives to allowing Scout Accounts to travel from unit to unit.

 

Yah, or the negatives of Scout Accounts period. With that much money raised, it's hard for a boy/parent not to think of it as "theirs."

 

Guess he needs to find a Ship or Crew that does some really high adventure.

 

Sounds like the SE is involved in this case to decide whether the new troop can go on da old troop's dime, since the old troop already paid. I'm sure no camp director is goin' to make that call. That was Vicki's workaround. That's high-stakes lose-lose poker for the SE.

 

I love Scoutin', except for the adults sometimes.

[frznpch]

Hello again. Well, whoever said that this one wasn't finished was too right! I have just been stunned with the news that at a jointly-held Eagle Scout Ceremony held this week, one of the scouts that went to the new troop was approached by a leader from the original troop, and told that if he was in the new troop he was "not going to summer camp!" This was said to a boy! Not to over-emphasize, but, gosh, isn't that contrary to basically everything Scouts? Bad enough to approach the parents, but isn't this crossing some line? To be honest, I find this behavior frightening.

[Lisabob]

Hi frznpch and welcome to the group.

 

What a horrible situation you find yourself in! I'm so sorry for you and the boys that some of the adults can't seem to figure out how to behave. And it does seem that if these boys worked to help raise the money for camp, and camp is already paid for, that they should be able to go with no questions asked. Nasty adult politics should have no place in this. Here's hoping your SE makes a fair decision in short order.

 

By the way - you've gotten some solid advice and feedback here from others. But you might have noticed that many of the other posts in this particular part of the site (issues and politics) are overtly political in nature. You might also want to have a look at other parts of the site, like the "open discussion" forum. Come on over and check it out! Regardless of what happens with the camp situation, starting a new troop is hard work, bound to bring up all kinds of questions as you go. The people on this site are unbelievably helpful and knowledgable (more than me! I've learned a great deal here) and I'm sure everyone would love to hear from you about how the new troop is going, and offer whatever help they can.

 

In the meantime I'm crossing my fingers that the SE gets it right, whatever s/he decides.

 

Lisa'bob

 

[EagleInKY]

Calico - That's a great question. It's something that only came to my realization in the past few weeks. I plan on talking to our committee chairman and have him and the committee work it out. Our financial goal as a troop is to get to the point where we won't have to collect money for individual activities, so it may resolve itself. But in the meantime, it's something we need to think about.

[SSScout]

"It's for the kids" ... Bob the Tomato said that.

 

Welcome to the Forums... the addiction is palpable.

 

* Cast around and see if you can find a Mediator that is Scout savvy but not attached to Troop1 or Troop2. This situation cries out for an unbiased observer. Go to the local Bar association and ask.

* It occurs to me that the bad feeling will linger, no matter the actual conditions of the split or the 'percieved' conditions of the split. The DE and the SE will each bring their own biases to the situation, I feel, and may not be able to give the Solomon's decree that leaves all with a good taste in their collective mouths. Perhaps the last annecdote illustrates why the "rebel" Scouts of Troop2 left Troop1?

* "Follow the money" ... Deep Throat said that.

 

* "Smile and wave as you go by" ... I said that.

 

YiS

[frznpch]

Thanks SSScout for the excellent suggestion re: the mediator. Sounds like a good idea, given the history here, the connections, etc. I will pass it along. Also, thanks for the laugh; I haven't laughed about this situation for days, but your quotes are great! And I never knew we could credit Deep Throat for "follow the money."

 

P.S. Am sensing the addiction potential here...

[Lynda J]

One thing everyone needs to remember is that any money raised by a unit belongs to the CO. They own your charter. They own your equipment. I would go and talk to your COR.

 

 

[scoutingagain]

Just a comment on the $4000 scout account headed to a sea scout ship.

 

While the wisdom of individual accounts may be debated, if the troop set up individual scout accounts that the scouts may transfer to another scout unit if they leave the troop, they should honor that commitment. The troop has already benefited form the fund raising efforts of this scout or his dad and should expect no more than they laid out in their fundraising policies. The scout earned the money in good faith expecting to be able to transfer it to another scout unit if and when he would decide to leave the troop. It strikes me as extremely untrustworthy to change the rules after the fact. If the ship benifits from the funds because the scout can't spend it all on his own activities, well that's the way the troop set up their system and they shouldn't expect to retroactively change the rules.

 

At the same time, if the policy is the funds are to be used for scout activities, the scout and his family shouldn't expect to be able to Cash out if he leaves scouting altogether. As far as spending it goes, I noted on our Council website there are still openings to attend the World Jamboree in England in 2007 at an estimated cost of $3975 per person.

 

As far as this Troop schism and summer camp fiasco goes, my hat's off the the DE if he's willing to step in and make a decision. After all the negative stuff we've come to read about some of the professional staff it's nice to know that at least one will step up and excercise some leadership.

 

SA

 

 

 

[acco40]

In our council, when we sign up Scouts and Scouters for summer camp we sign up "names" not just heads or slots. So if Johnny was signed up as a member of Troop 123 and he transfered to troop 321 he is still signed up for summer camp. Now, if Johnny raised money while a member Troop 123 and the troop put those funds in his individual scout account, when he left Troop 123 how or if those funds are distributed is entirely up to Troop 123.

[frznpch]

The issue here is that the camp has already been paid for for these boys. Also, as far as fund-raising, kids and parents are told that they work a required number of hours in the county fair food booth "to pay for camp." So the boys worked the time, but now the leaders want to withdraw the money. At this point it really is all about spite, as this is not the only problem ongoing, just the one I've told you about. This is the only issue that we of the group who left care about, because the boys deserve to get what they were promised. The families even have to pay to get into the county fair to work in the booth! At this point, the DE has kicked the problem back to our Charter, which is dithering, and can't seem to make a decision. I have been very disappointed in Scout heirarchy here.