3 strikes - you're outta here

[campcrafter]

Many on the forum mention the unit they serve uses the 3 strikes approach to discipline that goes something like this

 

1. verbal warning

 

2. 2nd warning and call parents to advise of situation

 

3. call parents to come pick-up boy

 

 

My questions are what types of behavior gets a boy to number 3.

 

Certainly soemthing such as continued fight picking on a campout - but what about a boy who just keeps talking, joking interrupting the program? still 3 strikes or does he get some foul balls to save him?

 

Have you ever gotten to the third strike and called a parent to come get their son? How did the parents react?

 

I really need to know what kind of misbehavior warrants a third strike, I can see a few of our boys getting there or maybe it's my harsh view.

 

thanks

 

cc

[SueM]

I've only had to do it once...I have a 2nd year scout who is a handful..can't sit still, mostly undeliberately provokes the other boys (can't help himself) and other boys sometimes provoke him too. He's an extremely intelligent boy..and loves scouts and camping. He had gone to the fall camporee and had a supposed altercation with a boy who he goes to school with (they have issues at school too) and I wasn't there to know for sure what happened. Anyway..the results was that I sat down and wrote up a contract with him..he was on probation for 3 months any further incidents and he would be suspended from all troop activities for 6 weeks...sat down with him and his grandmother..we discussed the situation..he read the contract and signed it willingly. He had less than a week to go on his 3 month probation and we were at a district event and I was told that he was poking at one of the other boys..the boy grabbed his arm and twisted it to make him stop..he fell down and when he came up, he punched the other boy! The adult who was with him brought him to me immediately and I called his grandmother to come and get him! He's a good kid..and I'm hoping that because he does enjoy scouting so much, that I can help him to try and control his impulses better by making him know and understand that this behavior will not be tolerated at camp or elsewhere with the troop and he need to do what he can to control it.

 

sue m.

[EagleInKY]

I was the one who posted the three strikes rule. I've only had to call a parent from camp once (for a "strike 2"). I did have to call a parent from a troop meeting for a "strike 3". You are correct, I gave this guy foul tip after foul tip. He provoked the youth leaders of the troop and constantly cussed them out and refused to do what he was told. I caught him at a troop meeting and tried to talk to him. He went on a rage and cussed me out, called us all stupid, etc. I decided I just couldn't take it any more. He's moved on to another troop. I hope he's getting control of his anger. I know I had run out of ideas.

 

The call from camp was a much better result. The parents gave us some advice on dealing with him. We had some follow up meetings with them over the next year. That lad has now made Life and - while still an occasional problem - he is doing much better now.

[evmori]

I have had to call a parent 3 times. Once because their son stole money & goods from his tent mate, once because a Scout lied to me when asked a direct question and once when a Scout told one of my ASM's to f-off. We don't use the 3 strike method. There are certain behaviors that will get you sent home the 1st time.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[EagleInKY]

I agree Ed. Some issues are severe enough to skip through the steps. Most situations don't occur that way though. It's usually a steady progression of discipline issues. I think the 3 step method allows you to head off some situations before they get serious.

[msnowman]

It may not be the most popular stance but I'm in the group that doesn't necessarily subscribe to 3 strikes. There are things that pretty much mandate immediate expulsion from camp. That being said, I have sent a boy home from camp on the 3rd day. I have also had boys call their parents to come pick them up from den meetings because they were unable to conform. BSA is not Baby Sitters of America, contrary to what some parents like to believe.

 

YiS

Michelle

[campcrafter]

Thanks for the responses.

 

Yes some behaviors as Ed mentioned would require immediate action. I am sure that those boys probably had been at least warned previously for other unacceptable behaviors. Few people will tell someone to F off just out of the blue and be a surprise to everyone, but it does happen. Usually people who bottle stuff up inside till they blow. However that is rare among adolescent boys I would think.

 

MSNOWMAN - What type of non-conformance in a den meeting required calling a parent? I am asking because I want to know level of behavior. Many times I wished I had called a parent. However many times too the boy's parent was there and was of little help after they had heard me call down their boy a number of times. I never asked them to remove their son though and maybe I should have. I still don't know, but want to be better prepared with Boy Scouts and and longer camps and greater safety risks.

 

Thanks

 

cc

[msnowman]

campcrafter - I'm talking extreme disrespect (yelling, cursing, etc to other boys or leaders), refusal to participate (along the lines of "NO! I don't have to"...no, you don't, you may call your mother to get you and take you home), hitting/kicking. Mind you, calling the parent is the not the first stop on the order & discipline train. I made other stops - boys will act up and get restless. However, when the same scenario plays out week after week, then the parents will get a call. I was very clear w/ that to the boys and their parents from the first meeting. It worked well, only a couple of times did a call home for a ride become necessary. Follow thru is important.

 

And, I never called the parent, I had the boy call. One of the best punishments my stepfather gave me when I was a kid was making me tell my friends myself that I was grounded because I hadn't cleaned my room. Making the child call and explain their behavior themselves makes them take ownership of their actions. Believe me, the next time he told me to clean my room I sure did.

 

YiS

Michelle

[eagle90]

I have had to call parents one time to send a scout home from Summer Camp. The Scout would do no work in his patrol, defiant, and causing morale to be at a low ebb. After 3 days one of my ASM's asked the scout if he wasn't happy and wanted to go home. The answer was "I don't give a f---." I asked if we should call his folks, I received a "I don't give a f--- about that either". Needless to say, I was on the phone ASAP, and mom made the 350 mile drive. Never did see the boy again. Sometimes you just have to do it. We now have a policy we pass out to parents and scouts before camp saying the following will get you sent home from camp immediately:

 

Leaving camp property

Alchohol - drugs

Cigarettes - tobacco

Theft - Vandalism

Health or emotional problems

Gross lack of co-operation

Gross disrespect for leaders

 

Never have had to use this policy since we established it.

 

Dale

[Beavah]

Yah, I'm not a three-strikes guy either.

 

Sometimes when playin' softball with kids, I just let a kid stay at bat until he gets a hit. Just depends on the kid.

 

Send a kid home for anything that seriously compromises the event for the other boys, including taking up way too much of the adults' or youth leaders' time and energy (by choice). Usually that means it's some "ongoing" behavior that culminates in an "incident." But it can also be an incident of theft, vandalism, bullying, gross disrespect for the leaders that other boys witness, etc.

 

So a scuffle that happens between two kids who are normally fine and are just overtired and grumpy on day 4 you handle differently than a fight that gets started by a boy who has been a handful all week.

 

I've never sent a boy home for accumulated "misdemeanors." Always figured it was our job to work on that sort of thing, as long as it didn't compromise da program for other kids. There's always ways to serve a community service and probation sentance around camp.

 

Save the big guns for the felonies.

[AvidSM]

I have never had to send a boy home, thank goodness. I would if it was a youth protection issue, severe in nature (ex: a knife attack)or if the behavior was repetitive to the point of affecting others with no signs of stopping.

 

Other than that, its the SPLs job to discipline the scouts. In my troop the SPL has each boy sign a written code of conduct that states that you should keep your hands to yourself and abide by the Scout Oath and Law. This code of conduct clearly states the repercussions for breaking the rules, sort of like your three strikes.

 

For example, if a boy was caught stealing from another boy, then the SPL with help from the PLC would discipline the scout. If it were a first time episode, the boy would have to return the item and then perform some service while at camp. If he was caught stealing again, then his parents would be called and they would be asked to talk to the boy. The SM would also talk to the boy to see what his problem was. If he was caught stealing a third time, then he gets sent home.

 

[Eagledad]

>>For example, if a boy was caught stealing from another boy, then the SPL with help from the PLC would discipline the scout. If it were a first time episode, the boy would have to return the item and then perform some service while at camp

[Lisabob]

Strictly from a parental point of view, I would EXPECT to be told if my son did something at a scout event that merited discipline. And I'd be seriously ticked off, to the point of finding a different troop, if there were a reluctance to tell me. Call it over-protectiveness if you want but he's my child first and foremost. And scouting should be a partnership, which can't happen if the leaders aren't willing to share information with families - and receive information in return sometimes, too.

 

Lisa'bob

[funscout]

I agree with LisaBob that parents should be notified of their son's misbehaviors. I would not want my sons getting away with something that I would not allow at home. However, I don't tell every little detail of a minor infraction. Some parents take it too personally and over-react, while with others, it's obvious the boy learned the behavior from the parent, and the problem is laughed off.

 

Sometimes I've felt like a real heel when I can tell I just ruined a parent's day. I can relate, because my younger son has ADHD, and every day I hear of something he did wrong. It does get overwhelming. Just yesterday, I showed up at school to watch him in his class play, and instead found him in the prinicpal's office. As soon as I saw him, I realized I had forgotten to give him his Ritalin. I almost started crying, because I knew it was MY forgettfulness that put him in the situation. After talking with the prinicpal, I agreed that my son's actions couldn't be condoned, but, I explained that it was MY fault, since I had forgotten his medication. I ended up just taking him home for the rest of the day. I didn't want him to be further punished for something that he truly couldn't control without his medication.

 

 

 

 

 

[acco40]

funscout & Lisabob - as I Scoutmaster I agree with you wholeheartedly! You should be told if your son did something at a scout event that merited discipline. But by whom? Your son of course!

 

Think of it this way. Should the Scoutmaster expect to be told when your son does something that warrants discipline at home?