Scoutmastering in a boy run troop (was cursing)

[Eamonn]

Scout Thinking:

" If I use bad language I'll have to fork over 25 cents. - I want to keep my quarter so I'm not going to use it"

Scout Thinking:

" I'm not going to use bad language because it's not the right thing to do and goes against the Scout Law"

Both ways end up with no bad language.

But one is more in line with what we are trying to do.

I know we have "Be Prepared", but what happens when a Lad doesn't have enough money?

Can he run a line of credit?

Or are we asking him to attend meetings prepared to use bad language?

Eamonn.

[oldsm]

I think that every boy is going to learn from multiple approaches. The coin cup has its place. I'd bet that there are other "incentives" in place to encourage proper decisions. Maybe the boy wants to save his quarter; what's wrong with that? If he "saves" enough quarters, he just might get out of the habit of cursing.

 

A lot of ethical choices are not conscious ones. Over time, we have all assimilated "correct" behavior into our psyches so that we automatically make correct choices without even thinking about it. I also suspect that most of us as adults really have no clear knowledge of exactly how WE learned what we know. We may have ideas about it, but most people don't remember all of the mundane actions and incidents of our childhoods that surely influenced our characters.

 

So, the coin cup has its place. As do other approaches. Who knows, if a boy is funding his summer camp through the coin cup, that should prompt a whole bunch of "other" opportunities to help him make good choices. Eventually, he might get to the point of making the cognitive choice "I want to keep a clean mouth and not offend others".

 

As I stated before, there is no single correct method of teaching values. If the coin cup works for you, fine. If you don't like it, use some other method. But let's not question the motives or techniques people use just because we disagree with them (the obvious exceptions being matters of safety or BSA policy, of course.) Your mileage may vary.

[OldGreyEagle]

There are some sports coaches who are acclaimed great because they have a winning system and consistently find atheletes who fit their system and continue to win.

 

Then there are other sports coaches who are acclaimed great because they consistently win by using a system that fits the athletes they have and change methods and system to fit available personnel

 

I think the coach that can adapt to available personnel is better than one who only does things one way and fits people to the system.

 

While it is the BSA mission to train young people to make ethical choices over their lifetime by instilling in the the values of the Oath and Law, you have to consider your personnel and the systems available. I do not like the cuss cup approach at all, a scout should not be profane or vulgar and should temper his language because he is intelligent enough to express himself with the veritable plethora of vocabulary open to him that are not profane or vulgar.

 

Then again, sometimes the first thing you need to do is stop the bleeding. If the immediate loss of material wealth is required to make an individual consider his speech pattern as the issue of character development and ethical choices are beyond the immediate grasp, then that is the best approach.

 

We would love to have the scouts learn about choices and consequences, you curse you pay is on the lowest level, but its at least a level. I would much rather not have them curse because its unscout-like, but that may be beyond the group at this point.

 

 

[evmori]

What's the money used for? Helps pay for pizza on Friday night for the Troop. A very small pizza.

 

The Cuss Cup is a good tool to help kids realize there are consequences for their actions. They will need to make a decision. Cuss & pay or don't cuss & keep the cash. No lines of credit are allowed & we have the Cup for all Scouting activities. And we don't reward expected behavior.

 

Following the Scout Oath & Law is the best way to go. But there are no immediate consequences for not following it. The Cuss Cup has immediate consequences & kids understand immediate consequences better. Remember, there are things they just don't get because of their age!

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[Eamonn]

"Following the Scout Oath & Law is the best way to go. But there are no immediate consequences for not following it."

Strange I thought "On my honor I will do my best" didn't carry consequences.

When I read :

The mission of the Boy Scouts of America is to prepare young people to make ethical and moral choices over their lifetimes by instilling in them the values of the Scout Oath and Law.

I read instilling in them the values of the Scout Oath and Law.

I don't read by making them suffer the consequences if they don't.

I don't see that they will do what they are told or pay up.

There are some tasks that I undertake, where I sit alone swearing to myself, is there a pay now cuss later plan?

Eamonn.

 

 

[evmori]

So if a Scout doesn't live to the Oath or Law, what happens, Eamonn?

[Eamonn]

"So if a Scout doesn't live to the Oath or Law, what happens, Eamonn? "

Ed, I think Eagledad said it better than I can.

He posted:

"I believe the main job of the Scoutmaster is motivating change of behavior. We are to encourage the scouts to practice new behaviors so that they develop habits that lead to developing better character. We adults can't make boys change, they have to be motivated to doing it on their own. Usually we do this through helping the scout see rational reasoning of how behavior affects those around us."

I really think ethical people do the right thing, just because it is the right thing to do.

They don't practice ethics out of fear of being caught and having to face a consequence or for some sort of reward.

The big question is not what happens when a Scout doesn't live up to the Oath and Law? It should be

What happens when he does?

Will they do it all the time?

Heck NO.

If they did we might think about just becoming a camping club.

We are trying to help build the Scouts we serve into people of good character.

Ethical thinking is something that each person needs to work on.

We as adult youth leaders need to set the example.

I think most if not all of us would agree that slapping/hitting is a definite no.

Name calling is a definite no.

In fact doing anything that would harm a Scout in body or in spirit should be a no.

While a lot of Scouts might be fine with managing the silly song, I don't see this as a good way of teaching ethics.

Paying a fine for getting caught isn't the same as installing ethical values.

There are however times when Scouts do by their own doing pay a consequence for their actions and this can be a learning experience.

We had two Lads the other week who when we arrived late at night at where we were camping found that they had not packed a flash-light. They had to wait until the other Scouts had their tents up before they could start erecting theirs. They had to manage with out a flash light.

I know it's not a very big thing. But next time they pack their gear I'm sure they will be more mentally awake and remember that it gets dark at night.

A flash-light was on the list of things that the Boatswain's Mate had sent. It might be said that this comes under "Obedient"?

All sorts of things can happen when Scouts don't follow the Oath and Law.

Hopefully we as adult leaders /advisor's use these failures as opportunities to practice teaching ethics and character building.

As the old song goes:

"It's not what you do it's the way that you do it"

Sure the cuss cup might eliminate bad language. But as FScouter posted:

"Does the cup method really achieve the real objective? What does the boy do in a situation when there is no cup? What goes through the boys mind: I want to avoid paying a quarter, or I want to keep a clean mouth and not offend others?

Eamonn.

 

 

[Mr.Mal]

Thank you, Eamonn.

I couldn't have said it better myself.(This message has been edited by Mr.Mal)

[evmori]

Thanks for not answering the question.

 

Let's look at this.

 

"Does the cup method really achieve the real objective?

If the objective is to help eliminate bad language, yes.

 

What does the boy do in a situation when there is no cup?

Hopefully remember the what he learned when there is a cup.

 

What goes through the boys mind: I want to avoid paying a quarter, or I want to keep a clean mouth and not offend others?

No one can answer this honestly. I would hope the boy wouldn't want to offend others and avoid paying a quarter.

 

There are many methods we can use. The Cuss Cup is just one.

 

Got a question. If a Scout consistently say "Aww #@!*% what part of the Scout Oath & Law is he not keeping?

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10 (This message has been edited by a staff member.)

[FScouter]

The objective is NOT to stop bad language. The objective is to instill in the boy values such that he will make his own free choice, without coercion or threat of penalty, to not use vulgar language.

 

Teaching values is not easy. Its easy to smack a kid upside the head or charge a penalty with a cup, or force a performance of the little teapot song, but none of that will teach values.

[evmori]

The objective is NOT to stop bad language.

Not in the long run, but stopping bad language is the immediate objective.

 

The objective is to instill in the boy values such that he will make his own free choice, without coercion or threat of penalty, to not use vulgar language.

Being an adult leader in a Troop is a lot like being a parent only with more kids. In most families there are penalties for bad language & behavior. And the purpose is initially to stop the bad language and/or behavior & then prevent future incidents. Methods vary & some work & some don't. And not all work for all families. Same thing for Troops. The Cuss Cup works for us. You don't have to like it or use it. I'm sure there are things you do in your Troop that others think are useless or teach nothing.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10