Too powerful of a Scoutmaster

[pack330]

Our troop just got back from our District Spring Camporee. Our troop was hosting the camporee. Our boys did a great job and the weather was great! My problem is that Scoutmaster and his wife had to bring their 11 year-old daughter to the camporee. Their plans for her fell thru. The camporee was held in our small town and they live about 5 minutes away. The Scoutmaster's wife was in charge of the camporee and had to be there for most of the day and evening. The boys were having a hard time with having her in camp. She has spent alot of time with the boys until a few weeks ago including other camping trips. Our committee chairman asked that all parents and the other children not attend meetings for one month. We have had some problems with parents interfering during meetings and siblings running around and being a distraction to the troop. Myself and a few other parents didn't feel it was right that she spend the night. She isn't a little girl anymore. She flirts with many of the boys. Her parents don't seem to see that there is a problem and don't watch her. One parent tried to say something and got her head handed to her. The boys are afraid to say anything because its the Scoutmaster's daughter. I also need to add that we had Cub Scouts and the families sleep 300 feet away in their own area and two parents from the Cub Scout side asked if the Scoutmaster's wife and daughter would be joining them at night to sleep there. Is there someone out there that may know if there is a policy for who can stay in camp and who can't? My sons don't want me to say anything at the next committee meeting because of how it may affect them. HELP!

[nldscout]

I would tell you it is the committee's choice. The CC needs to talk to the SM about this.

[Beavah]

I think ya have to trust people when they say their plans fell through at the last minute, eh? These people are clearly givin' their all for your son and a lot of other boys... he's SM, and she's runnin' the camporee?

 

Ya only get a real license to complain when you're doin' as much work.

 

Let it go unless it happens again... and then your job is just to give a heads up to the CC.

 

 

[Oak Tree]

There is no national policy on this. It's just going to be a troop decision. In this situation, you'll get to test how tactful you can be. And, as the others have said, going through the CC may be your best option, if the SM isn't really approachable on the topic.

 

But I agree with Beavah - you don't know if this is going to be an ongoing problem, so before you complain, think about what you'd really like to have happen.

 

Oak Tree

[kittle]

I have had to take my younger son on MANY different Scouting events. As a Cub leader, he has been with me to all but one or two of them. I was in charge of the Archery range at a Saturday event and my 5 year old was right there helping me (when he got tired of helping, her would color or play in the sand pit near by).

 

I have even been known to take him on Boy Scout camp outs. When my older son was camping with a Troop for his AOL, the younger son was right there. He will have to go camping with the Troop next month too. I am going camping with a new crosover and I have noone to leave the younger son with.

 

If the time comes when I am told that I can't take him if I have no other place for him to go, I will be looking for another Troop for my sons.

 

[Crew21_Adv]

Pack 330

 

Greetings!

 

I am not a lawyer and neither do I play one on TV... hahaha but.....

 

You asked if there is any policy for who can stay in camp, and who may not.

 

My expectations would be no.

 

BSA Councils, are normally concerned about Youth Protection (rightfully so). But not on who (boys or girls, men or ladies) may camp. Many other organzations have leased BSA property, as long as they abide by the Camp Rules for Health and Safety.

 

If it is BSA Council owned property, there should be a set of rules establishing by the Council/District Camping Committee. Who may stay in camp should be listed in there.

 

If it was on a State Park, private organization park, or other property. Then a policy would be documented between the organization property managements representative and the District Camping Director and his/her committee.

 

Let me pose a few questions, just to think about...

 

Your Troop hosted the Camporee. Were there rules on whom may attend and stay in camp, written in the Leaders Guide?

 

You stated your Committee Chair asked that no siblings attend meetings for a month, however your committee chair did not declare or order that no siblings would attend, correct? and has that month passed?

 

The Scoutmaster did not abide with a request. But I do not see that your Scoutmaster violated any policies, or that your Scoutmaster is too powerful.

 

Did the Scoutmaster make others uncomfortable? probably Yes. Should the Committee Chair dialogue with the Scoutmaster? Don't they always. They should be.

 

While you think of those questions... Is your Scoutmaster always there for the boys? Does he have experience in the Scouting program? Does your Scoutmaster consider programs areas that allow the Scouts to advance? Would you like the position of Scoutmaster? or do you have another nomination that may serve the Troop better?

 

I would always say that a Scoutmaster is the right man (or lady), at the right time, for the right job. They probably work the hardest to follow the Scout Oath and Law, but sometimes, it is time for retirement.

 

 

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

 

 

[anarchist]

Interesting topic...

 

Personal feelings - On district camps or "highly programed activities" -Sibs should stay home...period...This is a Boy Scout Troop and NOT day care...sorry, if that bends some noses out of line...but it is my personal feeling.

 

On troop 'family activities' ....even campouts...sibs are great...(another personal feeling)

 

In Reality...?!..."stuff happens" and if you are so blasted unhappy with this (one time?) "slip up" - are you willing to take over as SM and do as good a job? IF not, give it a rest and see if a trend develops...if so then raise a fuss...with the CC.

 

my two cents

Anarchist(This message has been edited by anarchist)

[pack330]

All of you have posted many interesting questions. I was there for most of the camporee. I ran a activity for the Cub Scouts and did all the check-in and take the money. I have a daughter the same age as the Scoutmaster's as well as having a 20 month old toddler. I stayed until dinnertime and then took off for home. I would have loved to stay at the camporee but didn't because my younger children shouldn't be there. That is my opinion! The Scoutmaster and his wife were too busy to pay attention to their daughter and she spent her time being in the boys way. This isn't the first time this has happened. There were alot of younger siblings running around but with the supervision of their parents. They also stayed in the "family" camping area. I very much believed that the Scoutmaster and his wife's plans for their daughter fell thru and that wasn't their fault. The Scoutmaster's wife could have taken their daughter home at night or slept over in the "family" camping area in my thought. Most of the boys have expressed feelings privately that they are sick of her coming to activities. This month of no one but the boys and the Scoutmasters has just started a week ago. It will be interesting to see how it goes. The CC is going to talk about it at the next committee meeting. The feeling among the boys is that the Scoutmaster's children get special treatment. The reason some of the boys talked with me is because they don't think they can talk with the Scoutmaster or the CC. I don't want to lead them in the wrong direction and I understand how the chain of command works in Boy Scouts. I don't want the job as Scoutmaster because I believe that job needs to be done by a man. Sorry if I upset anyone out there. My opinion, again.

[Beavah]

The reason some of the boys talked with me is because they don't think they can talk with the Scoutmaster or the CC. I don't want to lead them in the wrong direction and I understand how the chain of command works in Boy Scouts.

 

Apparently not, eh?

 

The thing to do here is to en-Courage the boys to buck up and go talk to da Scoutmaster. Ya don't want to be teachin' boys to be goin' around behind people's backs talkin' and complainin' about them. You want them to learn that a man of character approaches friends politely and respectfully and firmly with concerns.

 

It's the boys' troop. The SPL and ASPL should go share the youth concerns with the SM. I doubt that the SM will eat them.

 

 

[MaScout]

I am firmly straddling the fence on this one! In our troop, if siblings didn't come along, we often wouldn't have enough adult supervision to hold the outing. In general, I don't mind. I like them to get the bug! Just as long as they don't get burned out...

 

I agree that girls, especially, can be a major distraction. Our CC NEVER brings her daughter along, and on the rare occaision she stops by when we are camping locally, her mom tries to get her outta there pronto.

 

Now...another story. Once upon a time we had a female foster child. She had been molested by her father, and was sexually active at age 12. We had a last minute snafu and unthinkingly took her along. That lasted for about 2 hours. She never made it into a tent, but that was only because I had ahold of her arm! My husband & I were both actively involved in the outing, or one of us would have left with her. I made some panicked phone calls and got her picked up. From there out, my husband attended the campouts & I stayed home with her, unless we could find a trusted place for her to stay. (Husband couldn't stay home with her, as she made advances to him too.) Wow! That is an extreme example, but is a vivid depiction of what CAN go wrong.

 

But in this case, I'd try to be understanding. Maybe have CC talk to them in an understanding way - we know your plans fell through, but could you try to make sure it isn't a regular occurence?

[gwd-scouter]

Kittle, YIKES! You had your five year old right beside you while you were running the archery range? Don't have the literature in front of me and maybe there is nothing specific in the GTSS about it, but I can't see how you could possibly give 100% attention to the Scouts on the range while having to keep 100% attention on your 5-year-old as well.

 

Now, back to the topic. We have 2 camporees a year - fall and spring. Only registered Boy Scouts and provisional campers are allowed at the Fall Camporee; the Spring Camporee is designed for Boys and Cubs, but again - only registered and provisionals.

 

A number of years ago we did not have this policy, with the result being that the camporees became more and more a family camping event rather than a real Scouting event, at least for the Troops. Little kids running around, mostly unsupervised. The result was less and less participation from Troops.

 

When I was a Cub leader all of our outings were for everyone. Bring the whole family. So, I thought it rather snobbish of the Boy Scout leaders to be so rigid about not allowing Cubs to the Fall Camporee let alone siblings.

 

But, now I'm in the Boy Scout Leader role and I can see their point of view. There is a time and place for family outings. Yes, sometimes something beyond our control will come up and a sibling will have to come along. But, hopefully that is a rare occurrence and not an ongoing scenario.

 

 

 

 

 

[Lisabob]

I'm 100% with gwd on this.

 

Lisa'bob

[pack330]

Beavah, that is what I and the other parents/committee members have been doing. The boys don't feel that they can talk with the SM or the CC. We had one boy who kept getting hit by his patrol leader the(Scoutmaster's son) and he didn't feel comfortable talking with the SM. He talked with the SPL and the boy is still getting hit. We as committee members see a special relationship between the CC and SM. It's like they had a committee meeting before the real committee meeting. I am not sure it I should say something to the CC or not. I'm tired of everyone tiptoeing around our SM because we don't want to lose him. He is a great SM but I'm afraid the boys are going to start leaving the troop.

[Crew21_Adv]

Pack 330,

 

Greetings again!

 

Certainly sounds like your Scoutmaster did not break any rules or policies.

 

Sounds like he may have had a good plan A, but did not have a plan B to fall back on. Hey, I think that happens to every Scouter sooner or later. Although his judgement may have interferred with the Scouts concentration, I don't think it hurt any of them.

 

After your clarification, I hope your Committee Chair and Scoutmaster talk quiet often. I can certainly tell you... In any type of committee, while they don't always agree, it may be worth it to get the business on the table. I don't see that your Scoutmaster violated a policy, but he may be made aware that his family is as much a distraction as the younger siblings in camp.

 

Finally, A few familiar quotes... Regarding, what the Scouts have said about the Scoutmaster "Take it with a grain of salt". From many years of experience, "Talk is Cheap". Not only will Scouts address their dislikes, so will students, neighbors, chuch members, and employees. "If I had a dime" for every foul word that was ever said about me, after every good word and reward I have given employees, as well as credit given to my peers. Was it jealousy? I'll never know, but Ouch! Those wounds do hurt. Of course, listen to your Scouts, but "take it with a grain of salt".

 

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

[SR540Beaver]

From my experience, it is a very common site to see little brothers and sisters in camp when they belong to a family that scouts. If mom and dad are both at camp, chances are that little sister will be there too. That being said, when we have siblings along, they stay in the adult area with the adults. Heck, the adults stay in the adult area. We have an SPL, ASPL's and PL's that are in charge over in the boy area. We come over if asked or if we see something that needs to be addressed. But each troop is different. Perhaps having a little girl messing around in the patrol sites needs to be addressed in the PLC rather than in the troop committee.