I am considering pulling by boy out of scouts

[anarchist]

Its Me....

 

Man o man...

 

"As for me..." thats what this is all about...isn't it...

 

These folks are not overselling BSA...they just believe in the program...and as you should be able to tell expend a tremendous amount of time and energy "investing" in their units.

 

No, It's Me, scouting is not the "be all - end all"... there are other valuable and fun things for boys to do...(but them most of them are boring for dads too aren't they)...unless you simply live life through your sons activities...

 

As to teaching the same thing every year...(I hear the buzzer sounding)- wrong...each year we are supposed to build on the prior ranks lessons, review and expand...all the while looking for resources and methods to make each ativity fun and exciting...for our particular group of scouts ...not easy, but do-able...unless you need it handed out on a silver platter...

 

Please, take some time off. I won't even say to recharge your batteries. in a few years look back in on you son..maybe he, just magically, will metamorph into a leader as well as a good scout.

 

I have no doubt you have many great talents...perhaps Scouting just isn't one...no shame..just not what you "do". The world needs all kinds...go have fun investing elsewhere...No one will hold you to a contract...volunteers are just that...we are not employees we don't have to stay...And life is way too short to be doing something you do not believe in...

 

Heck, one day the kiddo might come in all excited and 'stoke' your fires again...don't lose any sleep over it...just don't expect lots of fellow "program bad-mouthers" here...even when we dissagree (generally, that's all the time), we still believe in the program.

 

good luck

Anarchist

[Vicki]

Fishsqueezer, I like your style. That post was spot on. Anarchist, yours was downright balanced:

[Mike F]

Its Me,

 

Most of us are borderline rabid about scouting, but I expect most of us have had similar thoughts at some time. And I know almost all of us have had to work with our boys when they get to about 13-14 and their enthusiasm starts to sag.

Every boy is different and has to make his own choices. (Families, too.)

 

My oldest boy (19) is a gifted athlete with a passion for basketball and love of baseball, soccer, and about anything else. It was a struggle for a few years as he balanced competitive sports, advanced academics, and scouts. As he progressed into high school and the competition became more intense, he found it harder and harder to make the teams. In spite of his hard work, he became frustrated at the increasing amount of bench time and it became obvious there wasnt likely to be an athletic scholarship in his future. Fortunately, about the same time, he had grown into one of the most respected leaders in his scout troop and had some incredible opportunities to lead and really grow and shine. He continued to satisfy his sports thing by running track and playing in a local basketball league. He graduated at the top of his class, earned Eagle and is now living his dream as a cadet at the US Air Force Academy, with a bigger dream right in front of him becoming an officer and fighter pilot. No hes not playing basketball on the USAFA team, but hes killer on the squadron intramural team.

 

Next son (15) was also active in sports throughout the year, but backed off on the sports in the last year and is now in the HS marching band, which takes up a ton of time, too. While I dont think hell ever be First Chair in the band, he gets a lot of satisfaction by his opportunities in scouting. Several times this fall, we started driving after the Fri football game so he could join his troop on a campout. Yes its a bit crazy, but he felt a responsibility to his patrol and was adamant that he needed to be there when they woke up on Saturday morning to start the day. How could I say no to a commitment and dedication like that?

 

One thing youll find in Boy Scouts is that its not a father-son (or parent-son) program. Yes most of the adult leaders are parents, but all parents are not required to attend all events. In fact, it would be chaos if every scout had a parent there. If the adult leaders are fulfilling their role properly, you would be hard-pressed to identify the parent-son connections, because the adult leaders are there for all the scouts not just their own kid. Thats one of the benefits of scouting. Although I have a lot of back-woods and leadership skills to share, I dont know everything and my sons benefit from learning from others, too. And, especially as they get older, they actually listen to the others better and they learn valuable skills in working with a variety of caring adults. If youre really lucky, as they get older still, your boy might comment, Hey, dad, you really did know what you were talking about. Surprise, surprise. Will wonders never cease?

 

Your mileage may vary.

 

-mike

 

[nldscout]

Ya know, your just like a lot of tunnel vision parents now a days, if you see "NO RETURN ON INVESTMENT" you see nothing coming out of it. Whats wrong with your son just having a good time with his pals. My advice is for you to NOT be involved, nut let your SON stay if he chooses.

[SR540Beaver]

With gas prices being what they are these days and the fact that we drive 25 miles one way to get to our troop, I'm probably not getting a good return on my investment. I can think of 5 troops within 5 miles of our house. While they are all good troops, none of them compare to the one we drive across town (in a different district than we live in)to attend. The troop has a wide mixture of boys, is boy-led, has dedicated parents and scouters, provides a great program and some wonderful opportunites that other units don't, won't or can't. My son is thrilled there. I am too. He is a third year scout and a Star. I'm an ASM who works with the two new boy patrols. Our paths cross occasionally. We just returned from a campout this weekend. Tonight we have troop meeting, tomorrow night is committee meeting. Thursday is paddling training for Northern Tier and Saturday is an invitaion only premiere to the movie "Hoots" sponsored by the National Wildlife Federation and a special service project afterwards. I'll have put between 250 and 275 miles on my truck with gas at $2.76 a gallon. I still think my return on the investment is more than worth it. My son is getting more out of it than his baseball, basketball and tae-kwon-do all rolled together.

[Lisabob]

Well, It's Me, I'm sorry you feel that way about the whole matter.

 

No, we can't nurture every single interest or potential skill that our children might have - certainly not all at once! And I certainly don't question your dedication to your family's welfare and happiness. I don't think others are either, for the most part.

 

But you asked a question and various people answered. Several tried to correct what appear to be misperceptions on your part about the program and how it changes as the boys grow older. Given that you went out of your way to ask in the first place, you can hardly blame us for sharing our views with you. (Feedback is a Gift!) In the end, I'm sure you'll make a decision (together with your son maybe?) that is in the best interests of your family, whatever it may be.

 

best,

Lisa'bob

 

[Beavah]

Yah, OK. We've all given It's Me some good advice and/or a good slap in the face to try to make him think different, eh?

 

But yeh know, as a commish I spent a lot of time talkin' to boys at summer camp from different troops. And I've got to say, there are a heck of a lot of boys who thought about quitting when they were webelos. Even a few who did quit, and only later came back after hearin' from their friends that Boy Scoutin' was so much better.

 

Poor webelos programs dat lose us kids and burn out parents are as much the norm as the exception. In fact, da BSA keeps encouragin' earlier and earlier "crossovers" and joint campouts to "fix" this problem, rather than fixin' the problem. The webelos program, and the webelos-level camping rules and expectations, and the kind of adventures that are age-appropriate for that group, all need a good re-think. So does our method of delivery (cub scout model of parent den leaders).

 

Its Me is representative of a whole peck of boys and their parents, eh? We're not servin' them well, and we can't keep usin' "hold on 'til Boy Scouts" as the excuse.

 

 

[Lisabob]

My sister has a couple of kids and last summer I spent some time visiting and helping out while she had some medical problems. They live in a rural area where 4-H is a big deal and here it was, almost fair season. My little niece had raised chickens to take to the fair. You should know: I can't stand chicken.

 

I spent a good amount of time learning how to bathe a chicken! My niece was a thorough instructor. You can't show a dirty bird, especially if you want anybody to buy it at the 4-H auction. From this I learned that: Chickens are indeed dumb. They smell. They have terrible personal hygiene and that goes double for the ones with poofy tails and long leg feathers. Being bathed isn't something to which they take kindly. They have claws. And did I mention that I really can't stand chicken?

 

And then! Auction day came and guess what, that's right, I ended up BUYING these chickens from my niece!

 

I got scratched and pecked. I learned first-hand that stress (such as being freshly bathed and wrapped in towels to dry) can cause chickens to experience explosive bouts of...the runs. I got bit up by bugs while chasing the darn things around to catch them for their dates in the tub, and then I paid too much money for some rather scrawny birds. Of course, my niece's eyes were glowing with pride that her (now my) chickens sold for a decent price even though all the other people who had promised her they'd attend to bid on her birds never showed up, and we are both still laughing ourselves silly about all the chicken-bathing escapades.

 

Talk about no return on my investment. Clearly I should've just bought some chicken in the grocery store. It would've been cheaper, not to mention quicker, cleaner, and more efficient.

 

I won't even tell you about helping my nephew with his goats...

 

Lisa'bob

[hops_scout]

"To everyone else: I think we all know that Scouting just isn't "right" for every boy"

 

I'll agree with that statement. The problem comes in when the PARENT decides what program is "right" for a particular boy.

 

**This has to be read with reason of course. There are some programs the parents must step in and decide-- Scouts shouldn't be one of them**

 

It disappoints me when a boy quits. It angers me when Scout is removed by his parent because the parent doesn't think it is worth his or her time.

[t158sm]

From its me's last post:

"You people are over selling scouting to the point of exaggeration." All I've seen are honest reasonable answers - You're the one taken to exaggeration.

You asked a group of people who are dedicated to Scouting for THEIR answer to a question and then chastise them for THEIR answers. Sounds like you might have other issues that you haven't told us about.

 

"To express that scouting is the unsurpassed program for developing youths is fictional." And soccer would be that program to you? Chess? Piano? Swimming? Get real. Name another program that even comes close.

 

"Its foolishness to consider that pulling him out of scouting will do irreparably harm." Let me read over this thread again to see if I've missed this... Nope, not there. No one said any of the such. Now you're just grasping straws to attack those who you asked for help to begin with.

From what I've read on this thread people have simply just given their honest reply to "Why stay when there appears to be so little return on the investment?"

 

" In my opinion Webelos II scouting is hardly the magical rewarding program that all scouting is billed as on these forums."

You seem to have taken issue whit my use of the word "magic" to describe Scouting. For me, I feel the magic. I am a better person for having been a Scout. THERE IS NOTHING ELSE THAT COULD HAVE GIVEN ME WHAT SCOUTING HAS GIVEN ME. It gave me something in my heart that made me want to be a better person. To help other people. To do the right thing even when it's not the cool thing to do. It makes me want to give hundreds of hours a year to other peoples kids in hope that they'll find the same thing. Despite problems encountered from broken homes, kids with ADHD, parents who don't care about their own kids or see them as just a means to their own selfish end. I've had camping trips where I was a babysitter and everything possible went wrong. The magic comes when 10 - 20 years later one of those kids comes up and reminds you of that trip. Then they say "That was the best time I ever had, Thank you." Then you know it's all worth while. Then you feel the magic. I'm truly sorry you've never felt this, and probably never will.

[campcrafter]

Its Me,

 

I feel your pain.

 

Scouting can be a wonderful program that helps develop boys into good citizens. It can also be a terrible program. Depends on a lot of variables.

 

I agree with you that we as parents should look for a return on our investment. We are investing time and money(often lots of both) on something to help our kids. Unfortunately the return is not seen for many years. However most of us are probably smart enough to see whether or not the return will come.

 

Most of the people on this forum a VERY dedicated Scouters and work hard to insure a good program. But how many people are here to discuss how to make a better program compared to all the other volunteers out there doing it just for the duration while their kid is in it cause no one else will do it? hose persons are to be commended for stepping up but they probably do not have the committement that many here do and I am sure their programs show it.

 

There are those toolike yourself who strive for a good program but one person can only do so much and remain (pick one or all ) sane, employed, married.

 

So Its Me I fully understand where you are coming from. It is a great program but for some it just ain't don't work. Maybe a diffrent unit would be better for your family? Or check out what 4-H is doing in your area they have great program too.

 

All the Best,

CampCrafter

[Lynda J]

It is funny that you state if you found a lesson play on swimming your son could do better as a swimmer. Why not simply let your son have a good time.

As far as repeatedly teaching a program.

I have been in some form of Scouting for close to 55 years. My mother had a GS troop before I was old enough to be in. She graduated her last troop two months after she turned 70. At no time did she expect the program to give to her. It was always what she gave to the program. I had my first GS troop at 22, (my daughter was 1 at the time) directed my first GS day camp at 25, At 50 I ended up with a 4 year old foster son. When he went into 1st grade I put him in Tigers. He is now Life, working on his Eagle. Now at 59 I love working with these boys. Yes I want them to advance but I also want it to be fun.

I had one father that seems like you. He has a list of what his son is going achieve next. It's a time table. When we moved up into the Troop he couldn't handle that he couldn't control everything his son was doing. He quit comeing to meetings. His son came out of his shell and is a wonderful Scout.

Let your son be a kid. And that isn't about how many soccer games he plays and wins or how many time he does this or that. It isn't about being the best at everything he does. It is about doing the best he can do. That may not be prefection. Sometimes it's about laying in the grass and watching it grow.

This program isn't a race. It is a journey. A journey that is full of fun and learning and teaching skills. I repeat many of the things I do with my boys. I don't remember teaching my kids to talk the first time. Seems like I spent a couple of years getting them to talk well enough to understand them. My own kids are now 38 & 34.

[Its Me]

 

Forums such as this one are difficult venues to hold discussions. I appreciate all the effort to make your thoughts and passions come through in black ticks on a white background. Some of the replies I would have liked to have seen develop into a full fledged conversation. It's just not possible with time lags and various posts in between.

 

Maybe Boy Scouts is different than Webelos. I was never a scout, not one day, so I have nothing to compare it to. I will stand by my asssessment that the Webelos program is weak and does not hold the interest of the boys or their parents. And that evaluating how my son spends a large part of his "free" time is good parenting.

 

 

 

 

[evmori]

And that evaluating how my son spends a large part of his "free" time is good parenting.

 

If you are looking to get something back for your investment then you are parenting for your benefit, not your son's. And that, my friend, is not good parenting.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[WDleader]

Ed, I have been tryung to frame my reply to this particular part of the original message, and you nailed it for me.

 

Robert L. DeWitt

ASM Troop 12

Chickasaw District

Georgia Carolina Council

Augusta, Ga

And A Good Ole Bear SR-691