Diplomacy, please...

[MaScout]

Our small town has one Pack and two Troops. One Troop is active, boy-led, & dynamic. The other hasn't held a troop meeting in over 2 years. The town really is only big enough to support one.

 

New (next year) Webelos 2 den has openly declared they are all joining the defunct troop, to keep it from losing it's charter. (This Troop -- call it Troop A -- has been going for 74 years. Troop B has only been going for 9 years, but is strong.) Troop A's SM is the Cub Scout Committee Chair, and she has been openly been trying to influence the parents to this decision.

 

Troop B has repeatedly approached Troop A about joining forces...even retaining Troop A's charter & dropping B's. The idea wasn't even entertained.

 

So...the Cub Scout Pack has asked Troop B to:

1) provide a graduation/bridging ceremony in May

2) provide transportation for two separate summer events, because the Troop has a bus

3) Provide "Boy Scout camping" opportunities to meet Arrow of Light & Outdoorsman Webelos Activity Badge.

 

How does Troop B leadership say, "What are you thinking?" or "Dream on!" while maintaining Scout Spirit? How to introduce these new BS parents to the idea of meshing troops? Like, "Are you willing to work on the concept of..."

 

Ma

(SM, Troop B)

 

p.s. Yes, there are a lot of things left unsaid. The original split was not pleasant. But only 2 adults remain from that time (the 2 SM's), and I think it's time to move on!

[LongHaul]

MaScout,

Let me table another option. Knock their socks off with the crossover. Do the summer outings and work with the Webelos on their AOL. Then tell them that when they are tired of promises from Troop A that Troop B will be waiting with open arms.

LongHaul

 

[MaScout]

We've knocked their socks off repeatedly, which is why they want us to do the cross over...have several boys with their own regalia, do tiki torches, yadda, yadda... They want the bennies, but are adamant they are going to "save" Troop A. The Scouts & leaders in Troop B really enjoy working with them...but there are some lines I think??? I can't decide if they have brass kahoonies or just aren't thinking what they are asking.

[Beavah]

Ho Ho! Now dat's one I hadn't heard yet!

 

I think the appropriate thing to tell them is that

 

1) In Scouting practice and tradition, the receiving troop provides the bridging ceremony and support. It wouldn't be right for the Troop B boys to take that away from the kids in the other troop (or the kids themselves, if they were effectively starting a new troop... but perhaps in that case you could send one older boy to participate in, but not set up or run their ceremony).

 

2) You'll pass the request to rent Troop B's bus along to the troop committee, and after they check out CO rules and insurance issues they'll get back to them on whether that's possible and what the rental cost will be (and presumably, the cost for the driver). You may or may not want to/be able to lease your bus in this way to help pay for maintenance.

 

3) You'll pass along the request for AOL and OWAB support to the troop's PLC (and adult leadership) to decide whether they want to do it as a service project. Let the kids know that "no" is an OK answer, and then follow their lead. It's their program and time.

 

Strike the nice balance between helpful/friendly and not being manipulated.

[Cubmaster Randy]

I'm confused, if the troop has not had a meeting in two years, do they have any scouts or an actual troop?

As a cubmaster, I do believe though that the bridging ceremony falls within the pack responsibilites , but works with the troop(s) to coordiate the event (a partnership). However the troop(s) usually have a vested interest in the event (gaining new scouts)

I would agree with Beavah on passing that on to the PLC,let them know that your troop is boy run and they will make the decision about what to do. If they do decide to do it then they are not burning any bridges (pun) and still might be able to recruit the boys in the process.

What is Troop A's leadership position on this? I would think they would want to work with the new incoming webelos. As the cub CC, the other SM does have the ears of the scouts and parents

Have you spoke with the parents of the Webelos? It sounds like they want to start a new troop (although saving the old troop in the process)

Have you discussed this with your UC,DC or DE. I am sure they don't want to lose a unit, but I also find it dfficult to see how one pack can effectively feed two troops. The math doesn't work quite right

[jr56]

I agree with Beavah, it is not appropriate for a troop to be conducting a crossover ceremony when none of the boys are joining that troop. By all means, pass the other requests on to the appropriate groups in charge of making the decisions, PLC etc..

[MaScout]

Ok -- things seem to work when this boy-led thing operates like it should, hm?

 

My response to the request for a ceremony was, "I'll present it to the boys, and get back to you." Beyond that, I honestly had a brain freeze...I was stupefied they would request this.

 

Upon hearing the date, those Scouts immediately said, "That's the weekend we are going fishing & boating." I couldn't even think that out!

 

While I understand the desire to keep a long-standing troop's charter, I personally see more benefit for those boys to join a functional troop. Troop A's SM wants to save the troop, obviously, but she is the only non-"paper-only" leader. They have one boy on the roster who knows he is there. I don't know if they have more names the parents said they could use, or if they have written a letter to the Council requesting special dispensation. But they DON'T have an active anything. No troop meetings, no outings, no ... anything. They can't do the bridging, because they don't have any scouts!

 

Well, the first request (ceremony) is out because we had a previous committment. The rest I'll let ride for now. I think we'll work with them and I will visit with the parents...staying "together" at the cost of the Scouting experience...but I'll be more subtle than that. Show them what a dynamite experience we are having, then ask them to compare that to what the other troop is doing.

 

There are a couple (parents) I wouldn't mind have join the other troop, though!

 

Thanks all for responding and listening. I needed a safe place to vent. I'll keep checking in.

 

Ma

[scoutingagain]

While I agree the Pack request is probably a bit on the nervy side, I would go with LongHaul's approach. But, make absolutely sure, all the parents and Webelos know they are free to join any troop they want and no one else can direct them to join a unit they don't want to. Let them know that your troop would love to have them as members and you promise them a great scouting experience. Hand out scout applications with your unit number filled in. Don't discuss Troop A at all.

 

While the Pack's requests are out of line, and you would have every reason to refuse them, that course will ensure the feud continues another scout generation.

 

Good Luck,

 

SA

[Venividi]

One of the things that I had to help a few of my scouts understand(including my son), was that if they allowed others to take advantage of them, they would continue to get treated that way (i.e. as a doormat). What you've described meets that description. You've done stuff to "knock their socks off", and they want more from you, and have let you know up front that no matter how much more you do, they are going elsewhere.

 

Beavah gives appropriate advice. I agree with you to visit with the parents - let them know that you are glad to see the scouts continuing in scouting, whereever they end up. And that if sometime in the future their son finds that the other troop isn't a good fit for him, your troop does accept transfers. I would caution you not to discount the possibility that Troop A might be a good fit for some of the scouts. Since your troop has already had the opportunity to "knock their socks off", you need not do more - they have had a taste of Troop B, they know where you are and how to join if they choose. Continuing to pursue the scouts beyond that may just foster continued bad blood between the two troops.

 

And if you agree to provide transportation with your troop bus, expect continued requests to use it once they are in Troop A.

 

[Venividi]

One of the things that I had to help a few of my scouts understand(including my son), was that if they allowed others to take advantage of them, they would continue to get treated that way (i.e. as a doormat). What you've described meets that description. You indicate that troop B has already done stuff to "knock their socks off", and they want more from you, while letting you know up front that no matter how much more you do, they are going elsewhere.

 

Beavah gives appropriate advice. I agree with you to visit with the parents - be sure to let them know that you are glad to see the webelos continuing in scouting, where ever they end up. And that if sometime in the future their son finds that the other troop isn't a good fit for him, they may want to try Troop B on for size. I would caution you not to discount the possibility that Troop A might be a good fit for some of the scouts. Since you indicate that your troop has already had the opportunity to "knock their socks off", they have had the opportunity for a taste of Troop B. Beyond letting them know about your program, continuing to pursue the scouts beyond that may just foster additional bad blood.

 

And if you agree to provide transportation with your troop bus, don't be surprised to receive continued requests to use it once they are in Troop A.

 

[Eagledad]

There is usually one adult who is dominating enough that the rest of the group will just blindly follow. There is the obvious risk that the scouts will drop out instead of transferring to Troop B. In fact I found that is the likely result.

 

I must say ma, of all the post I've read from you on this forum, this one describes your personality the best. I wish there were more like you in scouting.

 

Barry

 

[yellow_hammer]

I'm with Beavah on this one - let the PLC and Troop committee decide the issues and let them know that it is perfectly fine to say no.

 

Personally, I would gently nudge them toward not doing the crossover, not loaning the bus, and say yes to inviting the weebees along on a couple of campouts. The latter may be what convinces them not to go to the other troop.

 

Good luck!

[LongHaul]

       I've made my suggestions already, what I'd like to do now is comment on some of the other advice. First Question is why are we doing any of the Scout stuff? If it's "for the boys" as we all like to say, then how can it be "inappropriate" for ANY troop or group of scouts to provide a meaningful ceremony to recognize another individual or group of Scouts? Troop B has been asked to do a ceremony, they are not taking something away from Troop A or invading anyone's territory. Whats in it for me isnt part of the Oath or Law that I know of. As to being taken advantage of, come on, we only do this for one hour a week how can we be taken advantage of in that short span of time? If you feel that providing a meaningful experience to a child, simply because no one else is going to, is being taken advantage of, Scouting is probably not the place for you. Unfortunately those in adult uniforms are not fearful of someone taking their job away, for the most part we do a lot of things because no one else is coming forward. If troop B chooses not to do the crossover ceremony it sounds as if the boys won't get a ceremony. If troop B does the ceremony they will be exemplifying 5 of the 12 points of the Scout Law in one act.  I do not find fault with saying no to the request, Im having trouble with the reasons given for saying no.

 LongHaul

[t158sm]

I agree with Barry, if they don't find troop A suiting them they will probably drop out before they would transfer. If a boy finds they he doesn't like the troop he's joined he will generally assume that "they are all the same."

Take the high road and do the Scout-like thing. Let your PLC make the decisions. If there is a conflict with times try to find another that would be suitable to everyone. If the PLC says no then that's fine too. Here's an idea - you said that your troop will be going fishing/boating the weekend that they've been asked to handle the ceremony. Why not compromise and ask the others to join you. They can be exposed to more of your troop and have the ceremony taken care of at the same time.

[oldsm]

There's an alternative to having a troop do the crossover. Why not ask/invite the local Order of the Arrow to conduct it?

 

I've seen this done frequently in our District, and it works well, as there's a "disinterested party" crossing the boys into any one of several local troops. And to be politically correct, they sometimes "bridge" boys into "life" - meaning that they're dropping out of scouting. (PC is one of my pet peeves.)

 

The OA will benefit: they like pageantry and likely have regalia, etc. They're always looking for service opportunities. The burden doesn't fall on the boys in any one troop. And it gives greater visibilty to another part of the Scouting program.