Why would a woman want to be a Scoutmaster?

[t158sm]

I was asked this question the other day by a mother who had seen another troop with a female Scoutmaster. Her opinion was that it was simply absurd for a Boy Scout troop to have a woman Scoutmaster. BTW the Scoutmaster that she was referring to does an excellent job IMHO. I gave the reasons that I have seen from this forum (Only person to step up as SM) (To be more involved with sons Scouting experience) but I was a loss to further the answer by giving a personal motivation from my male perspective like she was asking for.

Thoughts anyone?

[AnneinMpls]

Hmmm....that's going to vary from person to person of course...

I was a BSA volunteer years back - started off becoming a troop committee chair in order to get my then husband active in something He came along as an ASM so we were a package deal for a troop that was trying to get back on its feet. From there we moved our volunteering a little closer to home when we started a Cub Scout pack - this time he was Cubmaster and I was Pack CC and we also were the Bear and Webelos den leaders when volunteers were in short supply.

Now as a single mom I'm back to being a very active GSUSA volunteer as a troop leader and service unit volunteer, also lead some training now and again when it fits my schedule.

The reason I want to get active again in the BSA is because there's a whole lot the BSA does right, whereas in GSUSA we're forever reinventing the wheel or pushing ropes uphill. So I want to maintain/renew my connections with BSA folks to keep my motivation going for my GSUSA jobs, and I'm also looking seriously at transitioning or cross-enrolling our older girls into a Venturing Crew.

You'll notice nowhere along the way was I a Scoutmaster or ASM - I suppose I could have served in those positions, but the real need was for CC leadership, and I happen to have the skill set for motivating folks to step up for committee jobs, along with being very good at knowing and following policy and helping other folks to understand it better.

I also tend towards thinking boys need men as role models, and girls need women as role models so if good folks are available to fill those positions I gladly let them That's not to say I don't think women ought to be Scoutmasters or ASMs - if that's where their skillset is, and they don't feel the need to serve young women for whatever reason, then go for it. In other words, this view of mine only pertains to how I choose to use my skills, and I'm fine with how someone else chooses to use hers )

Peace,

Anne in Mpls

[Eagledad]

Hi All

 

I dont think women should be the first choice for Scoutmaster. Yes, I seem to be stepping into these kinds of topics lately. But I have expressed these opinions before without getting into rough seas because the groups in the past has been adult and not reading more into it than intended.

 

I once had a discussion, very civil, with a very close friend who was about to be a female scoutmaster. She was all caught up in the political correctness defence mode in our discussion of female scoutmasters. At one point, I told her that I agree that women can better as good if not better scoutmasters than men in every respect except one, and that is role modeling a man of character. She is pretty smart and we are good friends, she agreed with that and we never discussed the subject again. She was a good SM.

 

Boy and girls of this age group learn most of their behavior (80 percent or more) by what they see from others, not what they are told. While we talk about it a lot, I think adults today basically ignore role modeling as the primary teaching method for developing behavior of our young adults. Even more important is to understand that boys watch men primarily for their influence as girls watch women. It is our human nature to take lesson from those we want to be like because survival is based from the skills gain in the scout ages. Boys dont look to women first to learn manly skills just like girls dont look to men because instinct drives us toward our gender behavior. Nature takes care of us in that our inner desires of what to learn and it naturally point us toward the most dominant role models of the same gender, whether we wamt to or not.

 

It has nothing to do with who is better at what. It has everything to do with the gender of who our sons and daughters want to be like. For a Boy Scout troop, I dont think gender is all that important for the supporters of the dominant leader, the SM. The ASMs and Committee Members just need to have the character qualities that are consistent with the scoutmaster and the program they are teaching the scouts. But the dominant role model should be a male for a unit to have its greatest influence on boys developing habits that lead to character.

 

Is that offensive to women in Boy Scouting? It should only be as offensive as it is to men in Girl Scouting. We live in a topsy-turby world where gender equality has been warped to mean no differences at all. Yet, when we get down to it, men and women are truly different and we need to use that to our advantage of doing the best we can to develop our kids into the best citizens of character and leaders of integrity, no matter what gender they are. Human nature is what it is and we need to keep that in mind.

 

All that being said, I think there are times when it is appropriate for women to be scoutmasters. When the character of the woman far exceeds the character of avalible men, it is much better to give boys example of good character than a dominant role model who is not. A few years back our council finally kicked out a SM who should have never been allowed near boys. The units other choice was a woman willing and able, but they chose gender over character. I personally am close friends with several women who are or who were Scoutmasters and they were the best person at the time for their units. I watch the female Scoutmasters on this forum and they seem outstanding and I enjoy reading their post and giving advice. I would enjoy working with anyone of them in a heart beat. But when all things are equal, all things are not equal. If I could pick the right role model for my sons and daughters in their scout units, I will pick units where the dominant leader is the same gender because I know that is who the kids will look at the most for duplicating their behavior. They cant help it, God and human nature are in control.

 

So to answer t158sms question, next time respond by saying The SM of a troop must be held to the highest standards of character and human behavior that a committee can find because the boys will certainly take those qualities into their adulthood. Given the choice in a perfect world, a man should be the Scoutmaster in a Boy Scout troop. But in this real world, she is probably the best person to fit those qualifications and the families of that troop are lucky to have her.

 

I love this scouting stuff.

 

Barry

 

[gwd-scouter]

Wow, that is a question I've been asking myself every week for over a year now!

 

I did not actively seek to be a woman scoutmaster. I had served as Advancement Chair for several years when my older son was in the Troop. I was happy in that position. I rarely went on campouts, usually only helping out when extra drivers were needed. I must say I was made to feel very unwelcomed as a female on a camping trip - not by the boys but by the male adult leaders in our Troop. So, after a while I stepped out of the Troop and concentrated my energies on younger son in the Cubscouts.

 

Then, younger son moved up to the Troop. Again I took on the Advancement Chair position. Little did I know at the time that all but one (my husband) of the current ASMs were going to quit within a few weeks and the SM would quit within a year. The only other remaining ASM did not resign completely, but wanted to take a less visible role as Committee Chair.

 

My husband works rotating shifts and would not be able to attend meetings regularly, so he was not going to be SM. The other ASM wanted to be Committee Chair and NO WAY wanted to be SM. Discussions went on for several months until I finally agreed to be SM. I told the Committee that I had serious reservations about my ability to be an effective SM.

 

Like most everyone else, I thought a SM should be a man. Boys needed that male role model, etc. etc. Boys would be uncomfortable with a female SM. In fact, 2 life scouts and 1 of the new scouts transferred immediately to another troop when it was announced that I would be the new SM.

 

I began my journey in December 2004 and now, 15 months later, I can say that I have become much more comfortable in my new role. I am also not seen so much as a curiosity (or even with hostility) by other leaders in my District. Most of the other SMs and ASMs now ask me how the Troop is doing, where we've been camping, offering to have us join them on campouts, and, in general are being helpful and friendly.

 

So, that's why I became SM. I really figured I would do it for a year while we kept the Troop from folding and that the Committee would find a man to take my place within that year. About 3 months into my new job one of our Troop's former SMs moved back to the area and said he wanted to get involved again. I was thrilled. But, he said he didn't want to move into the SM job right away and would like to be ASM for a while.

 

Last summer, however, he up and quit the Troop. Troop Committee felt it was sour grapes because they continued to back me as SM even though I thought the job should have been handed over to him simply because he was a man and a former Scoutmaster. Committee did not agree and cited the fact that he had only been on one campout with the Troop since he came back and was very resistant and unable to work with me in getting the Troop moving forward to boy-run.

 

So, here we are. I have learned so much these past 15 months. I've learned that, while maybe not the best situation, a female SM is not the worst thing that can happen to a Troop. While I am hesitant to give myself any unwarranted kudos, I will repeat what my older son said to me when I told him I wanted to find a man to take my place because I thought it would be better for the Troop.

 

He said, "thinking of the Troop and trying to find someone who will be the best SM rather than yourself, might just make you the best person for the job right now...ever think about that?"

 

So, I will continue working toward the success of our Troop. And, in a few years when it's time for me to step down, I hope I'm able to find the right person for the job.

 

 

 

 

[ScoutNut]

The question t158sm was asked was "Why would a women want to be a Scoutmaster?" NOT "Why should a women be a Scoutmaster?".

 

Big difference - Different perspective.

 

Why would a women want to be a Scoutmaster?

 

For the same reasons that a man would want to be a Scoutmaster.

 

She was asked by the committee, she believes strongly in the BSA program & she wants to help the boys develop into ethical, caring, competent young men who will be the leaders of tommorrow.

 

Who wouldn't want to be a Scoutmaster?

 

[mk9750]

What an interesting topic!

 

Barry made a lot of great points. I agree with him 99.85% on this one.

 

Barry made the observation that political correctness has us morphing gender equality into gender exactness, and that this attitude is incorrect (I hope I rephrased that and stayed true to your point). I couldn't agree more. Instead of trying to blur the differences between men and women (or between races, or between religions), we should be celebrating those differences, while at the same time treating each group fairly.

 

This is important because there are roles, tasks and jobs that one gender is suited for more than the other. When physical strength is a distinct advantage, as a general rule, men will do these jobs better. When sensitivity, especially to the subtle differences in human nature, is important, women will generally be the better choice.

 

That paints the topic with a very broad brush, and even I don't think that it is fair. Certainly some women make excellent construction workers, and firefighters and soldiers. And there are some very fine male nurses and teachers. My comments are meant to be very general.

 

Where I have a slight disagreement with Barry's position is that I don't think Scoutmastering is an area where males have an advantage over females. What are the characteristics that make a great (or even good) Scoutmaster?

High Moral Character

Willingness and ability to teach youth

Knowledge of leadership skills

(at least some) Knowledge of outdoor skills

Commitment to using the Eight Methods to reach

the three Aims of Scouting

 

If a Scoutmaster has these traights, what difference does it make how that person fills out their uniform? Neither men nore women have an edge on ony of these traits, in my opinion. Where I can agree with Barry is that if there absolutely is a tie, there are certainly SOME boys most every Troop has that can really benefit from a male role model in the position. Conversely, I submit that there are probably as many boys who could stand to be exposed to a female role model, too. Over all, though, I really don't believe that males have an edge over females for this important job.

 

Just for full disclosure, I'll add something that might come as a surprise. Our district has only had two female SMs since I've been involved in Scouting - 14 years now. and they were both horrible. I can't be any kinder about it than that. They were horrible. But they were bad not because they were female, but because they each lacked at least a couple of the traits I listed above. My point is that I come to my conclusion based on analysis rather than experience. IF that matters.

 

But in the end, all this may not matter. In speaking with our DE this week, he made a bold statement that sounded as if he knew something. He said that in ten years, BSA would morph into Scouting USA, and may look something very similiar to Scouts Canada. If so, I suspect that there may well be a closing of the gap between the number of male and female Scoutmasters. Now whether he really knows something or is simply specualting, I don't know for sure. But if he's right, this discussion may well be a moot point.

 

Best regards to all, and Happy Passover and Easter to all (even to the folks who spend most of their time in the Issues and Politics section).

 

Mark

[OldGreyEagle]

gwd's story is typical of the lady scoutmaster's I know. They end up with the job because no man will take the job and the ladies want their sons to have scouting in their life. gwd mentioned she had three scouts transfer out, I wonder if the boy's father's ever considered being scoutmaster. Maybe I am wrong, but when I see a woman scoutmaster, I see a person willing to do what it takes to bring the best youth program to their sons and also I see a bunch of men barely qualifying to be called a man

[MaScout]

Wow! What a question! My answer is similar to GWDs.

 

Who is able & willing to take on the position? There are soooo many factors to consider here. GWDs husband works a rotating shift, my husband works on call, so they are not able to be SM. The able part is two-fold, though. Not only are they able time-wise, but also whats been touched ondo they have the Scouting skills, people-management skills, temperament, etc. Then, when you find a male who is able, is he willing? This is a hard combination to come up with when you are in a small community. Right now, our troop is almost completely female-run, with my husband being the only man who is consistent in his participation. I am the SM because I am the only adult who is able and willing. Barry says it well when he says first choice Since we dont have a man for first choice, I stepped up. Gwd says, I've learned that, while maybe not the best situation, a female SM is not the worst thing that can happen to a Troop.

 

I waaaay agree with what has been said about male role models. Our troop started in 1996, and Ive been the SM most of that time. For a year, we had a dad who was able and willing. I gladly stepped back. It was awesome! The boys had a great experience. But when he had to move on & I stepped back into the position, the boys were very accepting.

 

I have the Scouting skills, and I LOVE SCOUTING!!! I have great respect for the ideals in BSA. I have the time to devote to making our Scouting program the best it can be. I attend training whenever I can make it. I want to become the best leader I can so I can share that with our young men to help them become the best they can be.

 

I am a pretty good SM. Our troop is mostly boy-led (although we still back-slide). We work towards boy-led enough that our UC, DC, and DE have all sent troop leadership (adult & youth) to us to see how it works and for mentoring. Thats not to say were perfect, but we are always working to improve.

 

When I started, I did get some resistance from some men in other units. That has dissipated over time. Partly because Im not cocky about it, Im not fighting political correctness, and I happen to be quite good at what I do. (GWD sometimes its not bragging, its stating facts.) The adult males have mostly gotten over the stigma of asking a woman how to read a compass or topo map, or how to splice ropes or tie various knots. I cant think of one person in our District who doesnt support me now.

 

There are some areas I hold back in. I dont attend the Philmont Trek with our boys. Our family backpacks extensively, and I enjoy it very much. (We spent our 20th Anniversary sitting on top of the world, actually a mountaintop in Wyoming.) But I dont attend because this is a guy thing. Ive had several men in our District urge me to attend. But lets simplify thisit would make the boys uncomfortable when I went to the bathroom with only a rain poncho for privacy. The whole picture is much broader than that, but that typifies the situation.

 

Our local Packs Webelos-2 den has a Dad I have my eye on! He took SM specific and OLS training last month. I have had very open discussions with him, letting him know that if & when he is ready, I am ready to step back. He wont be stepping on toes. (Our Troop committee is in agreement on this.)

 

I am a female SM because I love Scouting, I want the best for our youth, I want a quality Boy Scout experience available for my son as well as others, and I happen to be the best choice for now.

 

Sorry the post is so longbut I wanted to answer completely.

 

Ma Scout

 

[MaScout]

So...while I was composing my lengthy reply, several other great posts were made. ScoutNut, I meant to include just what you said..."for the same reasons a male wants to be a SM!" I especially liked the "Who wouldn't want to be a SM?" Spoken like a true believer!

 

MK lists "characteristics"...what I was trying to say, but took a lot more space to say! What he says is SO true. And while I agree that it is good for the boys to see women in a leadership role, I still feel that ideally, (if all the qualities were the same), it would be better for the boys to have a male role model than a woman as SM.

 

Finally...WHAT WAS I THINKING?!?! I left out the most important reason. The REWARDS! Now, we all know a SM gets double a SA's pay, so what ARE those rewards? You all know already, or you wouldn't be so committed to your programs. It's that pride you feel welling up in you when one of "your boys" earns his Eagle. It's that feeling that steals over you when one of your Scouts is accepted into Yale or a Military Academy, or is recognized in the community for selfless service, or when they volunteer to coach a Little League team, or they rescue someone who has fallen through the ice...and every one of these boys puts some of the credit on the BSA program. It is the intense pleasure you get when they are home for vacation & stop by the troop meeting. It is a bond & a brotherhood.

 

So, as ScoutNut said, "Who wouldn't want to be a Scoutmaster"?!?!?!?!

[scoutingagain]

"Why would a women want to be a Scoutmaster?

 

For the same reasons that a man would want to be a Scoutmaster. "

 

That's the only answer that's needed.

 

The degree of female involvement as overall leadership in a unit is a different issue. I have no problem with a woman who would want to be a scoutmaster and effectively serves in that capacity. However, I would also agree that I think it is important, that to develop young males as leaders, they have a chance to work with and interact with male role models. That does not mean those role models have to be the Scoutmasters.

 

Part of developing as a male leader is being able to interact with leaders of the other gender, race, religion and frankly even sexual orientation. In fact, given that women are a majority of college and university students today, any young man growing up today that has issues with women in positions of authority is not likely to get far in their own career.

 

SA

 

[kenk]

My hats off to ANYONE who steps up to be a Scoutmaster - wether male or female. You have my respect.

 

I grew up with a twin sister, and my parents instilled in us that she could do anything a young boy could do. I'm raising my young 8 year old daughter the same way. Gender should not be a barrier to sharing the joy of teaching our fine young boys to become even better young men.

 

BTW, I'd be more than happy to be a Girl Scout leader if called upon to do so. Fortunately my daughter's troop has a fine fine leader.

[kittle]

ScoutNut and MaScout,

 

I don't really want to be a SM. I gladly drive boys to camp, will camp if they need another adult, and would step up as an ASM (if they wanted me to). I have worked with the boys a little on campouts and do enjoy working with them more than I do Webelos aged boys. But I would not go seeking the psoition of SM.

 

My reasons are selfish (I guess). I signed my son up for Cub Scouts so that he would have other adult influences in his life and so that he would be leaning from others. I homeschool my boys and felt that they needed another influence. It didn't work out that way. My son's Bear leader stepped down and I took over so that the boys would have a leader. Then due to troubles in the Pack, we went the Lone Scouting method for a year while we helped establish a new Pack. His second year as a Webelos, we joined the new Troop that we had helped with. When my son crossed over into Boy Scouts, it was refreshing that there was another adult that was willing to be SM.

 

 

[orennoah]

I guess the question says a lot about the questioner.

 

One of the best SMs in my District is female and I have learned quite a bit from her, especially after I became a SM myself. I've know her for a few years now, but it never occurred to me to wonder why she'd want to be a SM.

 

Why would any of us want to be SM?

 

It's time-consuming, physically challenging, emotionally challenging, financially challenging and generally a pain in the @ss. Of course, it's also the best job in Scouting. Working with the Scouts is just so damn much fun! Now, if we could avoid working with anxiety-ridden parents . . . . (Well, I can dream, can't I?)

 

- Oren

[MaScout]

Good point, Kittle. Sometimes those of who love what we do tend to forget that it isn't everybody's niche. I've often said it is such a blessing that there are teachers who like to teach young children and those who do better with the older ones. Just tonight at church, we were discussing how everyone finds their niche. Why should Scouting be any different? We each have our strengths, and not everyone's is the same. Thank goodness! What would a troop be without SA's, CC's, treasurers, taxi drivers, etc.? Bless you for your supporting role.

 

Are your reasons for not wanting to be a visible leader selfish? Or are they self-less? Since I am so involved in so many areas of my children's lives, I sometimes deliberately step back and let them grow without me. This is for their betterment. So, NO, I don't think you're being selfish. I admire you for doing what needs to be done, but allowing your children to spread their wings, too.

[SueM]

I never set out to become a female Scoutmaster, but I think that my reasons for taking on the responsibility was pretty much the same as most mens' reasons are...I did it for the boys! My consideration was that it was in the troops' best interest..and therefore all the boys IN the troops' best interest that I step up and take the job. I was not only the only one willing but also the only one who at the time understood that what we were doing in the troop was not real scouting and that if I did not do this, that we would continue to be handing out Eagles to boys who I felt did not deserve them!! One of the Aims of Scouting is healthy assciation with adults..it doesn't say it needs to ONLY be Male adults, although I do agree and appreciate that the majority of the boys contact with adults SHOULD be with other adult males..this is why I keep my own son involved!! However I also do not think that it does boys any harm to get used to the idea of a woman in a position of authority! When I was discussing stepping up into the SM role, one of the committee members asked the questions "How do you think the boys will feel about a female SM??" and one of the ASM's said "If they cannot handle a woman in the position of authority at age 12..13..14..15..HOW are they going to survive in the world when they go out to get a real job?? They need to get used to working with everyone, no matter if they are men or women!!"

 

Anyway...any time I start to wonder WHY in the WORLD I agreed to do this..a good friend reminds me 'Remember..it's FOR THE BOYS!!"

 

sue m.