Son's less enthusiastic

[campcrafter]

As a boy I lived for Scouting and as an adult I really eat it up too.

 

My boy while he enjoys it isn't as ate up with as I was/am.

 

I fear he will want to quit and my selfish side wants him to stay in not only cause I enjoy it but for the growth he will get out of it.

 

Anyone else have this situation.

 

YIS,

CC

[SR540Beaver]

CC,

 

It is the opposite for me. I quit while in Webelos. I had no interest in joining the Boy Scouts. That was 1967, so I can't really tell you why.....I just don't remember ever having a burning desire to do it. My son on the other hand, joined as a Webelos, is in his third year, a Star and loves it. I registered because of him. Him and our old Cubmaster who was an inspiration to me. He lived, ate and breathed Scouting. His son (same age as my son) did to as a Cub. His first year as a scout he seemed to enjoy it. He started losing interest around the beginning of his second year. I think a lot of it was that he enjoyed Cubbing when the adults did all the work. He loved going camping, he just didn't want to put forth ANY effort whatsoever in camp or at meetings. He wanted to quit. His dad had been selected as an ASM along with me for Jamboree and had paid $1900 each to go. He made his son stay in until Jambo was over. His son fought him over every single meeting in between then and when we went to Jambo. There were times when he made his dad's life a living hell over scouting. After Jambo, he finally allowed his son to quit. As much as he loves scouting, he has basically dropped out to pursue other interests with his family. One of the reasons his son gave was that going to the meetings and campouts cut into his skateboarding. Go figure. 60 to 90 minutes a week doesn't take that much away from other activities. I think it was more of an excuse. The real reason that I observed was that he didn't want to be responsible for anything. Scouting is a great program, but it won't be attractive to every boy.

 

My wife has asked me before what I would do if my son wanted to quit. I told her I'd probably stay active at the district or council level, but I don't honestly know how long that would last.

[AnneinMpls]

Hmmm...

You don't mention any particular behavior issues, so it might just be that it's not meeting his interests right now.

How boy-led is your troop? Does he have an opportunity for input into what his patrol does? This game of scouting ought to provide young people with what truly feeds them, so if interest is flagging, I'd sooner look to the programming...

Is there too much emphasis on Adavancement rather than on achieving?

Is he wanting to define himself apart from dad? Does he want you over on the *other* side of the room more, but maybe doesn't want to come right out and *say* that to you?

Is he getting hassled by somebody that's taking the fun out of it?

These are just ideas off the top of my head - I'm not at all familiar with you or your troop or your family )

[Eamonn]

My best friend is very much into Scouts and Scouting. We even joke about him being buried in his Scout uniform.

He has two kids -Both Girls!!

One is a little older and missed Venturing, the other is at college but is a member of a Crew.

Scouts might not be what your son wants to do!

If you try and force it on him, in time he is going to dislike it all the more and it could be something that gets in the way of your relationship with him.

My son OJ, never was as mad about Scouts and Scouting as I was -That was until he got deeply involved in the OA.

Once he did he really got the bug.

At the end of the day we give our kids "Roots and Wings"

Eamonn.

[CA_Scouter]

CC, I am right there with you. I can't get enough of this stuff ( same as I was when I was a kid ), but the boy doesn't show the enthusiasm that I'd like him to show.

 

I have that selfish side too... I want him to stay in and get his Eagle, he's just turned Life and has only 8 mb's to go... but he's got to want it on his own, I can't push him, or he won't learn anything!

 

We are kindred spirits in this regard...

 

I would just LOVE to get a bunch of suggestions from other posters to see what we can do to movitivate these guys...

 

I'm all ears.... er eyes....

 

 

[campcrafter]

Thanks for the replies.. Great moral support on this forum.

 

Anne you are wise woman and obviously a good SM.

 

We just crossed over to Boy Scouts in Feb.

 

The boys have been on one Weekend outing to the Cosmoshpere. Went really well boys all had a great time.

 

Have had 1/2 dozen meetings. Mostly Chaos even though this is an established Troop. It is adult led - boys "expected" to get Eagle ( an Eagle mill in opinion) Older boys (>15) not around much only a few 3 or 4 other older boys (13-15) and our 10 new boys (11 yo)

 

They supposedly made up a new scout patrol of these boys but other than elcting PL and picking a name - no other patrol activity.

 

THE CAMPOUT - Last weekend was the first Troop camp out we have been on. Not much diffrent than the Cub Scout camps we did the past five years except fewer parents. The adults cooked and ran the program ( we did get some Tenderfoot requirements done). But some of the boys were quite dissapointed they didn't get to cook. The boys overall had fun but they are not new to camping. We went camping at least twice a year as Cubs since Tigers.

 

I am registered and ASM (was DL, CC, CM and WDL) but have just stood aside and observed, though I did tell the SM how I and some of the other new parents felt.

 

My son always has a good time but has not been very impressed with the meetings. ( He likes structure).

 

I did talk with another dad last nite who also talked with one of the veteran adult leaders about the situation. We will further present our views at the "leaders meeting" next week. ( They don't have a PLC - they have "leaders meetings" were the adults do the planning.)

 

I have read enough on this forum to know what needs to be done in the troop ( Which by the way I sorta of knew it was this way going in - just not how bad it was. We chose the troop because it is at our church and most of the boys go to school together.)

 

I just want my son to have a good experience. But it really is making by stomach hurt that he might not want to be a Scout!

 

Thanks for listening.

 

CC

 

 

[SR540Beaver]

Eamonn,

 

I don't want to hijack the thread and maybe this isn't the time or place....but. You mention OJ really got on fire with OA as opposed to the troop. I've heard this same scenario a number of times. My knowledge of OA is zip as I won't be doing Ordeal until probably September. My question is, what is it about OA that boys find so much more appealing and why can't some of it be duplicated at the unit level? This has always bugged me. Some boys (although they are not supposed to) get so wrapped up in OA that they basically begin ignoring their troop. Is OA like BSA "crack" or something? Why can't the same excitment and expectations translate to a unit program?

[scoutingagain]

"THE CAMPOUT - Last weekend was the first Troop camp out we have been on. Not much diffrent than the Cub Scout camps we did the past five years except fewer parents. The adults cooked and ran the program ( we did get some Tenderfoot requirements done). But some of the boys were quite dissapointed they didn't get to cook. The boys overall had fun but they are not new to camping. We went camping at least twice a year as Cubs since Tigers. "

 

Well no wonder he's not as interested. How many cub scout camps will the boys go on until they get bored? Look for camping opportunities that involve activities the boys really want to do, challenge and excite them. Climbing, biking, ropes courses, backpacking, canoeing, fishing, rafting, a new camp location over the horizen, somewhere they've never been before, somewhere they think they'll never get to,(Gettysburg, Valley Forge, Colorado, Sea Base, Philmont, somwhere other than the usual 1-2hr drive to a state park they go to every year), whatever and get them to choose and plan. Something that will convince your son that Boy Scouts is more than just more Webelos style camping.

 

If you just crossed over, hopefully you can get him to go to Summer Camp. Most camps have active programs that boys over 11 really find fun.

 

I'll admit I've been fortunate. My son is thrilled with scouting. But at 15, he chose to be a Counselor-in-Training at Summer Camp, this year he'll be on Camp staff and was SPL this past year. The unit he's a member of tries to do at least one or two major outings a year that are of specific interest to the older scouts or go places and do things that are new to the scouts. The point is, he's not doing the same stuff he did at 11-13 years old. And it sure isn't Cub Scout camping.

 

If the program doesn't progress with the ability and interests of the boys, they are sure to get bored and move on to other interests, and who would blame them.

 

Good luck,

 

SA

[campcrafter]

SR540Beaver

 

I'm going to be rude and reply before the Big E.

 

BSA Crack - that's good!

 

Why I think boys get excited about OA

 

1. Mystery

2. Eliteness

3. Ceremony

4. Indian Lore

5. It is more boy led usually and usually older boys 14+

6. Something new

 

Seton's Woodcraft Indians precursor to Scouting had much of this also

including that he was dealing with older boys. Remember the joining age for BSA at first was 12 which at times I think wasn't a bad thing.

 

 

 

cc

 

(This message has been edited by campcrafter)

[AvidSM]

Campcrafter,

 

Here are some suggestions I have for your situation:

 

First, you can find another Troop that is more "boy led". This may not give your son the sturcture he needs because boy led meeting can be equally chaotic. It will also take you and your son away from your church and his friends. Perhaps you can convince some of the other parents to switch troops with you?

 

Second, you can try to talk to the current leadership and get them to change their ways. Based on you posting, you are giving this option a try. I wish you the best of luck in this, but I would not expect these leaders to change. They probably like the way things are run and until they leave, the status quo will prevail.

 

Third, you can find a new chartering organization and form a new troop. This would be based on how many boys you can get to join you from the 10 that just joined you current troop.

 

So, there are you options as I see them, from easiest to the hardest. I hope your son decides to stick with it. I seems that you know some things about scouting and are into the program.

 

But remember, It's his choice to stay no matter how you feel. You must step back a moment from this and ask yourself - Is he not happy with the situation, or is it just you? Is he picking up a bad vibes from you? Or, is the situation in the troop that bad?

 

Yours in Scouting,

AvidSM

 

 

[campcrafter]

ScoutingAgain

 

Yep you are right. The best camp out I ever had with these boys was our last Webelos camp.

 

We went to a YMCA camp that had a low ropes course, zip line, stream to wade in, and fishing pond. We also had the boys involved in cooking, prep and clean-up. Amazing too about that campout was the boys were no longer all gathered around the fire at night poking it with sticks and throwing stuff in to see what would burn. Some were checking out stars and constellations, some were playing cards, some were playing flashlight tag. It will always hold special memory. I was especially proud how far they had come since Tigers. I don't want them "ruined" by this troop.

 

Right now I think its the meetings that are turning him off. As I said he likes structure and the meetings are anything but.

 

cc

[campcrafter]

Avid

 

One of the things I try to do in situations where I think something is wrong is to see if it is me or my perspective that is wrong first. I don't always succeed and don't always accept the answer. In this instance I know it isn't just me because of the calls I have ahd from other parents. ( They still call me since I was their boy's leader for so long.)

 

So next week at the "leader's meeting" another dad who is very dissatisified and I will attend and make our views known.

 

I promise here that I will not lose my cool and will remember points 3, 4, 5, 6, 8 and 10 (I am sometimes intimidated easily by others and find it hard to express myself) of the Scout Law.

 

Yes I must remember ( and my wife reminds me) that it is my son's choice and I am in it for him.

 

Thanks, Avid, for your counsel.

 

cc

[AnneinMpls]

Hello again Campcrafter )

Goodness, thank you for the lovely compliment - I'll remember your words every time I'm feeling incredibly foolish - which is pretty often!

You said they organized the new scouts into a New Scout Patrol. Who's the ASM assigned to the NSP? How bout...you? ) Then you don't have to worry over trying to change "the whole troop" "right away" - just make the NSP the very best NSP it can be (put the rest of the troop to shame - interpatrol competition? Have the NSP instigate it themselves - send the older boy patrol a letter in a bottle challenging them to whatever piece of scoutcraft you've been helping them learn up down and sideways

You can make change from within - you're still playing the game of scouting - just the challenges are greater - don't see the current troop leadership as "wrong" - just as "worthy opponents"

Hmm, the boys didn't get to cook at the last campout? There's a wide-open opportunity to challenge the older boys - or even the adults! (Might be the NSP has *more* experience with outdoor cooking than the boys who have been with this troop for awhile!)

Your team has the ball, and you've got a couple hundred cheerleaders on your side among us (though only some of us actually look good in a skirt...)

Peace!

Anne in Mpls

[scoutingagain]

Campcrafter,

 

Sounds like you have a pretty good idea of what the issues are. AvidSm has pretty well laid out your options, although depending on how set in their ways the current leadership is, I would lean towards trying to reform your current unit or moving to a different unit that you feel has more opportunity for your son to experience scouting as you know it can be. I suspect there are reasons that your son is in this unit and changing is not as easy as it would sound. That leaves reforming the current unit.

 

Ask your son, what kind of outings he and his friends would like to go on and volunteer to help them make it happen. Get him to summer camp if you can so he can see there many options in scouting, including the OA, staff possibilities, Jamborees, High Adventure activities, etc.

 

One of the bigger mistakes I see new parents make, and I was guilty of this myself, is they do not speak up early enough. They tend to follow the established order and assume this is the way things are. If you and your son know things can be better, make suggestions, be prepared to volunteer to make them happen.

 

Good luck.

 

SA

 

[AvidSM]

I like Anne's option also!

 

Campcrafter - I joined scouting for my son also. But now he's aged out and I'm still in it. So, you can be in it for more than just your son. And, it appears that you are keeping a objective point of view. So try to have fun, and as Anne suggested, it's just a game!