Getting a Troop back on course

[RMcCown]

First, some background. My son crossed over into the troop 2 years ago. At that time, I attended the orientation meetings with the SM/TC, and liked what I heard about the troop (heavy on camping, lots of service projects, etc). My son got his Scout rank within a couple weeks, and attended camp that summer. All seemed well. But, by last March, though, it was obvious 'something' was amiss. There had only been one camping outing during the year, and that was only for one night. My son hadn't advanced at all beyond Scout, either. About the same time, the SM put out a notice that he'd like some people to step up and help out as ASMs, so I threw my hat into the ring. I attended summer camp last year, and started working with the new guys. I started to get training last fall, and from the training, it was obvious that we wern't a boy-run troop. We aren't even a Troop-lead troop. We're an adult-lead troop.

 

A handful of us new ASMs went to position-specific training last November. I even signed up to do this spring's Wood Badge. We all came back with a lot of enthusaism, having talked to other SM/ASMs, and learned tons of information about the patrol method, boy-lead troops, the whole 9 yards. When we presented this info to the SM/TC, the SM basically told us "Yes, thats nice, but I dont think our boys can do that".

 

The SPL relies on the SM to come up with the plan for the troop meetings. The meetings dont have any real form, though this has been getting better in the last few months. There is almost NO advanced planning for outings. Boys have no idea week-to-week what they are going to be doing at the troop meetings. Outings are last-minute-quick-get-gear-out on saturday mornings. At meetings, the Venture scouts hang out up on stage in the hall, while the other troops work on skills, or play a game. There is a big disconnect between the older guys, and younger guys.

 

This past week, its come to a head. At the TC meeting on tuesday, about 3/4 of the TC tendered their resignations at the end of this scout year, citing lack of organization. We're down from 43 paid scouts in september, to 10-15 showing up at meetings.

 

Last night, myself, the other active ASM, and the 2 TC co-chairs, spent several hours discussing what, if anything, we can do to salvage the troop. We all agreed that we *HAVE* to embrace the BSA method of running meetings, and running a troop. Both myself and the other ASM agree that neither of us want to put any more energy into a troop thats not a Boy Scout troop. We're now trying to figure out how to proceed from here, without feeling disloyal (A Scout is Loyal) to our SM.

 

Has anyone gone through something similar, or have any sage advice?

 

YIS

-=Bob

[AnneinMpls]

Good morning, Bob!

Yha, you've definitely got your work cut out for you, but you've also got some "comrades in arms" who will be on board with getting things back on track.

Have you been to Woodbadge yet? Or is it still coming up for you this spring? You'll be able to craft your ticket items to exactly what your troop needs most. You might also put a bug in the SM's ear to attend woodbadge with you too. Actually...since the SM serves at the Troop Committee's pleasure, you could suggest that the CC let Mr SM kow that his continued appt. as SM is dependent upon his attending woodbadge

Just a thought,

Anne in Mpls

[Crew21_Adv]

Bob,

 

WOW!

 

I've been around for a few years, and have seen both sides. "A High Performance Team" and on the other end of the spectrum, teams that were severly lacking.

 

Scouts, just like many other social and service clubs, go thru "Peaks and Valleys".

 

Many times, I have seen very similar circumstances. It is very easy to say let it be a youth led organization. But you need the right youth, at the right time, and for the right job. To compliment that, you need the right Scoutmaster and Assistants and Troop Committee.

 

Without my Scouting library with me right now, there are alot of documents that state Scouting is Youth Led. However, most of those documents state that the success of the Troop rest with the Scoutmaster. (I do know that the Venturing Leaders Guide has that similar statement). Even in the Venturing handbook, there is a statement saying that the adults may lead the program, until the Venturing Crew youth leaders can maintain their leadership. (Not an exact quote, but it is in black and white...almost..)

 

If the youth don't buy into the program, they will not support it. The same goes for the adults. It needs to satisfy their needs (or their family needs) The program agendas need to achieve Scouting skills and Advancement throughout the year.

 

I have seen youth leaders attend annual planning conferences, with nothing on their mind but video games. The youth leaders state the Scouting Skills have been accomplished in 1 minute. Many don't understand that interpatrol competitions reinforce Scouting Skills. And, they are always ready for what would seem to be their favorite game "Tackle the Tenderfoot" (Not a real game, just most games appear to get out of hand). Their weekly assignments on the Troop Meeting Plan 34425, seem to fall in the trash on the way from PLC.

 

While other youth leaders have actively participated in PLCs, taught Scout Skills, followed their plans and enjoyed the program.

 

Now for my 2 cents...

1) Get their "buy in" into the program. Both youth and adults.

2) The Scoutmaster should sign off Scout Spirit and Leadership Position of Resposibility, only when it has been earned. Not a rubber stamp.

 

It is not difficult, and it is not re-inventing the wheel. But only youth that desire to be in the program should be leading the Troop. Likewise, I would expect most Scouting adult leadership would rather have a small Troop of high quality Scouts, than a big Troop of Scouts lacking any quality.

 

I do hope this helps! Further, I hope the Scoutmaster and ASMs, Committee, and the Patrol Leaders Council can bring some quality back into your program and have a mountain top experience!

 

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

 

Crew21_Adv

[EagleInKY]

There is a lot of stuff going on here, and you are going to have a real challenge ahead of you to turn this troop around. As has been said in this forum several times, you won't be able to do it overnight. I believe it takes 4-6 years to develop a boy-run troop. And that's if you are starting from scratch. Transforming an adult-run troop to a boy-run troop is going to be even more difficult. It can be done, but it will take support from everyone - especially the SM. The boys will get it, eventually. They just have to be shown the way. Some will embrace it, others will be scared.

 

You said the "SM basically told us 'Yes, thats nice, but I dont think our boys can do that'". This is your first challenge. You need to figure out what makes the SM feel this way. My experiences with adult-run troops are caused by adult leaders who either:

1) Want a program to be extremely well organized and efficient.

2) Want the glory for themselves.

3) Are covering for inadequacies of their own son(s).

 

The most common, and least problematic, is the first one. Most are just trying to run a program as effiently as possible. Boys can't do that, they'll tell you. And they are correct. For the most part, a boy-run program will be less efficient than an adult-run one. But, we aren't the Rotary Club. We are about teaching the boys leadership through real-life experiences. They won't get that if we adults do everything for them.

 

The second one is a tough one to deal with. I've seen it, and I don't have a good answer. This is the situation where the SM almost always has to step down or be removed. OR, a new troop has to be formed.

 

The third one is probably pretty rare. I've seen it in my own troop. Now with a SM, but with a Committee Member who has tried to get in the way of our boy-run progress. I think his reasoning is a combination of #2 and #3. He knows that if he's in charge, he can elevate his sons' standing. If the program is boy-run, his boys are not going to be the natural leaders of the troop. Once again, adult egos getting in the way.

 

 

So, first things first, I think you need to understand the SMs motivation and why he feels the way he does. Only then can you begin to address it.

[gwd-scouter]

Bob, Welcome to the Forum. Your sure have started out with a thought provoking post! There are numerous threads under Program and Patrol Method about your situtation.

 

I feel a bit presumptuous answering your post since I am in a similar situation and have been grateful to the other more knowledgeable folks on this forum for their advice. But, you asked for advice from anyone in the same situation, so here goes.

 

About 15 months ago I became SM of a Troop in a similar situation to yours. What had once been a somewhat boy-led Troop had become completely adult-run. The troop used to average 18 active Scouts but was down to only 4-6 at meetings and outings. We even got to a point where camping trips were cancelled because no one wanted to go. In the last year before I became SM, the troop only went to summer camp and on 2 other camping trips. DISMAL!

 

Without going into a long story of what happened leading up to me being asked to step up as SM, I will tell you what my experience has been since.

 

After accepting the role of SM, all ASMs resigned and 3 boys left the troop, basically because they felt a woman shouldn't/couldn't be Scoutmaster). In many ways I agree with that and was hurt that the ASMs felt I shouldn't be SM and rather than step up to the job themselves, they simply resigned and/or moved their sons to another Troop.

 

So, had to get all new leadership - an ongoing challenge. The good part of all new leadership, however, is that they tend to get the idea of boy-led and understand when I ask them to back-off being a Dad/Mom and let the boys do it.

 

The loss of 3 Scouts left us with only 4 active Scouts, 2 hit or miss Scouts, and 4 we never saw but had paid their registration (what I call our legacy Scouts). When my son and a couple other new Scouts started a couple of years ago, they were excited about Scouting. But that excitement quickly changed as they followed the example being made by the legacy scouts.

 

The good news is that things are changing. These guys quickly found out that I expected them to be examples to the younger guys - and I meant GOOD examples. For the first time in years they had jobs to do and were expected to do them. They were expected to wear the uniform properly. They were expected to show up on time. Yes, I admit I came on a little hard in the beginning. Partly because I wanted to get their attention. Partly because I was a woman and didn't want them to think I was a pushover. Mostly because I was new and had a lot to learn about being SM.

 

I can say without hesitation that this past 15 months of trying to turn our troop around has been exhausting.

 

Some weeks/months it seems we take one step forward and two steps backward. We only formed two separate patrols a couple of months ago. January saw our first campout where we had 2 patrols doing their own cooking/cleaning etc (up till then we were just a Troop, no patrols at all) and the trip was completely Scout-planned.

 

Backpacking trip a couple of weeks ago went very well. Not as well attended as I would have liked - only 4 out of our now 10 Scouts attended - but again Scout-planned and Scout- run.

 

I am still spoon feeding the monthly plan to the SPL and PLs, but then they plan in more details for each week and the monthly campout. For example, we did backpacking last month. I gave the SPL an outline for the month: 1st week, types of backpacks; 2nd week, backpacking stoves and fuel; 3rd week, food and meal planning; 4th week right before weekend trip, backpack shakedown.

 

It is working. This month we are getting ready for our Council's Exporee and the Scouts are working on planning their gateway. So, lessons on knot tying and lashings. Last week they held a lashing competition between the patrols. And, I had nothing to do with it!

 

Take a moment to read through some of the threads from others with similar Troop problems and you will see that you are not alone. Some of the folks on this forum will describe their Troop in a situation just like yours, but that were able to turn it into a success within a few years.

 

Oh yes, I did say years. From everyone who has answered my posts I've read that it will take 3-6 years to go from adult-led to boy-led. I am 15 months in and I can say we still have a long way to go. But, progress is being made.

 

The most important thing I think I've done so far is share my vision for this Troop with all the adults and boys. I told them what my goal had been last year - just to keep the Troop together. I told them my goal for this year - having regular PLC meetings and better functioning patrols.

 

So, hang in there. This forum is a fantastic place to get ideas and answers to your questions. Talk with your SM about your vision for the Troop. You may find out that he has just been waiting for someone to come up with ideas on how to change things around.

 

Good luck Bob. It will be a challenge, but well worth it!

(This message has been edited by gwd-scouter)

[AnneinMpls]

I think getting buy-in from the youth is a lot easier than getting it from the adults.

It's inportant to help them both see that things are progressing.

(Reminder - we are GSUSA, ot BSA...)

I dug up a old resource from the 50's, back when GSUSA still published a PL handbook. It's a fabulous cartoon-illustrated piece, and it has a page titled "What Troop Leaders Do During Patrol Meetings" "They may be talking with a guest...Or just looking out the window or gazing at the sky..."

The girls get a superb kick out of me doing a dramatic reading of this page, and we use the catch phrase that their job is to make us adult leaders really really bored. Then I make sure that they chance to catch me striking a "looking out the window or gazing at the sky" pose.

Alright, maybe not helpful exactly but it works for us

Peace!

Anne in Mpls

[RMcCown]

Thanks for the encouragement, all. Ive been reading through the forums, and it doesnt seem like our problems are insurmountable. I think we just have to take things one step at a time, with a lot of handholding. We'll see how the SM reacts, but there is enough support for being 100% by the book that I dont think he'll have much choice.

 

The WB course is coming up in about 3 weeks. I definately have a good choice of things to put on my ticket. No boredom for me.

 

Right now, we're trying to get JLT in-house. Council hasnt had one for a while, the last 2 were canceled. We may even try and do our own.

 

-=Bob

[FScouter]

3/4 of the TC tendered their resignations at the end of this scout year, citing lack of organization.

 

Its easy to blame the Scoutmaster for all the ills of a troop. He is after all the front man and most important adult interacting with the boys. But it sure seems like a cowardly act for committee members to simply quit. Therein might be part of the problem - committee members not understanding or doing their own jobs.

 

Did the SM conduct an annual planning conference with the boys? If not, then why did the committee let the program move forward without an annual plan? Is the committee outings and activities person handling the logistics of troop outings? Does the committee advancement person come to troop meetings occasionally to work with the troop scribe and patrol leaders about the advancement status of the boys? Is the committee treasurer working with the troop scribe? Is the committee equipment coordinator working with the troop quartermaster?

 

A Scoutmaster cannot be the SM, plus do all the committee jobs too.

[RMcCown]

Therein lies some of the problem.

 

>Did the SM conduct an annual planning conference with the boys?

 

No, PLCs were an unknown until this past December.

 

>If not, then why did the committee let the program move forward without an annual plan?

 

Because the SM said that we could have a "good enough" troop without all the advanced planning.

 

>Is the committee outings and activities person handling the logistics of troop outings?

 

Yes.

 

>Does the committee advancement person come to troop meetings occasionally to work with the troop scribe and patrol leaders about the advancement status of the boys? Is the committee treasurer working with the troop scribe?

 

Not generally, though the SM/ASMs get a report occasionally on advancement. Its generally fallen on my shoulders to insure Troopmaster and the boys scout books match. We don't have a scribe.

 

>Is the committee equipment coordinator working with the troop quartermaster?

 

We don't have a committee equip coordinator. Requests for equipment come from the SM or troop quartermaster, and generally are paid for out of pocket, though sometimes out of the troop expenses. Usually equipment failures/missing/etc are noticed when we're getting equipment from the lockers the day of a trip.

 

 

[SueM]

Bob,

 

Welcome to the forum! Like gwd-scouter, I am also a female SM who had to step up to takeover what was basically an adult led troop when none of the men would do it and have also faced (and am still facing!) many of the same issues that she has. I am 18 months into the SM job (though I also did it unoffically for several months prior to that) and we are just getting to the point of trying to do patrol camping..and regular PLC's and boys starting to run meetings. Your situation is somewhat more challenging though since you still have a SM with a set idea to contend with and that poses a real obstacle for you to get around. Perhaps you should sit down with your CO, CC and COR and even your Unit Commissioner and discuss the situation with them and seek their advice on how to procede. Make sure that the other adults are -really- with you on things because it is also a major problem if you have one (or more) adults who sabotage your efforts because they don't have a total understanding of what you are aiming for and go off in their own direction and sometimes undermine the progress in the process.

 

Otherwise..what if you started to take a particular patrol and begin to mentor them..help them start to come up with ideas for meetings, etc., have them start teaching skills to the younger scouts in their patrol who may need help and see how that works. Good luck..it is a long, hard fight...two steps backward for each step forward, but it'll be worth it.

 

Sue M.