Mothers and Fathers on Campouts

[LongHaul]

Ive spun this from another thread because Id like some opinions on Mothers and Fathers on campouts. Im not talking about adult leaders who have a child in the unit Im referring to adults attending outings as a Mother or Father for a specific scout. In a unit Im very familiar with the situation has been a Mom and Me, Dad and Lad unit with those not having a parent present being on the outer fringe. These adults are addressed as Mom or Dad and run clean up and interference for their child. Even when they take training for a given position their child is always treated differently than the rest of the unit. In the thread this was spun from the central figure was a 17 year old Eagle Scout that had not attended an outing without a parent till he was 16. Comments on Mothers and Fathers instead of Adult Leaders.

LongHaul

(This message has been edited by LongHaul)(This message has been edited by LongHaul)

[SemperParatus]

I would never tell a mom or dad they could not go camping with their son, unless (i) there were space limitations and their attendance would prohibit another scout from attending (I have done this in the past), or (ii) they became a constant source of interference, causing a breakdown in troop/patrol dynamics (I have yet to have a reason to do this).

 

I do believe it is a good thing for boys to get out from under their parents watchful eye. Scouting provides the perfect opportunity to instill a sense of independence, in a structured and safe environment. However, if a parent prefers not to foster this development in their child, that it is their prerogative. I suspect the overwhelming majority of parents that attend do not present a problem, and it is the minority that insist on 'doing for their child' to the detriment of his developing independence and his and other scouts fulfilling patrol/troop responsibilities. While few, these parents obviously garner the most attention since they cause the most 'issues' that need to be dealt with.

 

Let's not lump all non-leader parents together. Most have their stuff together and are just looking to spend some quality time with their kids in a wholesome and natural setting. They keep their distance when necessary and interact when time and activities permit.

[LongHaul]

Please let me clarify! I'm not talking about the adult leader with a child in the unit I'm asking about parents who are attending as parents and therefore can not help but effect the patrol dynamic. If this adult simply observes and supports their child then they fall into the adult supervisor catagory. If the parent inter acts with the entire youth body but favors their child it's one thing but when the parent is along only to interact with their child should we see this as a problem?

LongHaul(This message has been edited by LongHaul)

[SR540Beaver]

We always make it well known that parents are always welcome on any of our campouts. That being said, we also educate them that the adults camp as a model patrol. Boys are not allowed into our patrol area without asking permission and we don't enter their witout asking. We explain the patrol structure and that we expect them to honor it as they undermine to authority and structure of the patrol method. Can we keep a parent from interacting with their child? Of course not. Can we counsel them if they are gumming up the works and trying to set up or break down Junior's tent for him? You bet. Our boys do a pretty good job of planning out and scheduling the time on campouts and there is really very little down time. We keep them busy enough (as well as the adults) that it kind of becomes hard for them to interfere.

[scoutldr]

BSA policy (I can't quote a reference right now) is that parents may attend and "observe" any BSA meeting or activity, including OA. You can't prevent it. But you should make it clear to them that the SPL and unit leadership are in charge of the outing, including their son.

[DugNevius]

I have to say i had the same reaction to that original topic concerning a mother attending every trip until her son was 16.

 

It is important that scouts in the BSA learn self reliance and become able to function and make decisions without their parents around or direct input. We are teaching them to become young men capable of life without mom and dad. It is hard to become self reliant with mom and dad always there, which, in the real world, isnt always going to be the case.

 

Yes, the BSA can not forbid parents to go on any trip. A long while ago i mentioned that our troop tries to have the scouts attend at least 2 trips before dad comes along and after that its great to have parent involvment, but this is not a policy, its just recomended. The reason is becase it forces to new scout to look toward his patrol leader for assistance instead of running to dad's tent when he needs his sleepbag stuffed and vice versa it helps with mom and dad cope with not being the one there to do it, both which prove difficult tasks when dad is around from the get go but later on the scout avoids his father. Bob White loves this.

[msnowman]

1 - Why not register anxious mom/dad/guardian as a committee member? Not that makes any difference on how they act or should be treated, but if they want to tag along anyway get 'em on the hook as part of the program. Our Pack has one anxious father who wants to attend Cub Res camp w/ his son. Our answer was "No problem, we'll get you signed up as a MC and you'll be good to go".

 

As far as the parents interfering or treating their Scout different, I guess you'd have to take advantage of "re-educational opportunities" and work to show the parent how boy-led is a continuous work in progress.

 

Nephew has been in the Troop a year now and I have not gone on any of his camping trips. Besides the fact that I hate to camp, I feel its important for him to have time to grow w/o me there. He learns he can count on himself, and when he can't do it himself he learns that he can count on others to help when asked. He is also learning that he can be counted on. These are lessons that I don't think he would have gotten in a year had I gone on the camping trips as he would have continued to try to come to me for help, advice, input. Granted, its nice to know he respects my opinion, but its much nicer to know that he is learning to be a young man of substance and self-sufficience. I have stopped by on the middle day of some of the Fri-Sun Camporees when they have been close to home. I say hi to him but really spend more time getting to know the SM or other adult leaders at camp w/ him and watching the Boy-led dynamics. I have asked him if he minds if I stop by and he has always told me "no, you don't even talk to me or bother me with my buds". I guess that is high praise because then he turns around and says "you know, when you went to camp w/ me when I was a Web II that was our own little Pal & Me". I so love that Nephew boy of mine.

 

YiS

Michelle

 

 

 

[kittle]

The Troop my son belongs to requires that a parent go along on their son's first campout with the Troop. After that, parents are welcome to attend whenever they want. It helps with transportation to have parents attend. For instance at the last campout, if my husband (who is not a registered leader hadn't went the SM would have been the only adult there. Our Troop had 1 SM and 1 ASM. The ASM doesn't get the opporetunity to attend very many campouts.

 

I would also like to add that in this day and age, you can't blame a parent for being a little protective. You can't guarantee that the volunteers are people of good character and that something won't happen. I trust the leaders in our Troop, but it took awhile to develop that truust. when my son crossed over, I planned on registering as a leader, but didn't since they welcomed parents along without question.

 

I have went camping with the Troop and I am not a leader. When I do go, I am more apt to send my son to someone else if he is in need of help. I originally signed him up for Cub Scouts so that someone else would be his teacher since I homeschool. Now that he is in Boy Scouts this is actually happenning, and I am enjoying it.

 

[orennoah]

In our troop, we have a very clear, stated up-front, policy: "No 'Parents' On Outings."

 

We explain right up front that "parents" are not allowed. However, if they wish to come along as extra adult leadership, that is fine. They will be part of the "Grump" Patrol and will be hanging with and assisting the rest of the adult leadership. They will not be hanging with or assisting any of the Scout patrols.

 

So, our answer to the question of whether we allow mothers and fathers on campouts, as parents, is simply no. This is especially true if they see their role "as a Mother or Father for a specific Scout."

 

With one notable exception (which led to the creation of some written adult training setting forth our patrol and adult policies), things have worked well.

 

Neither the adult leadership nor the youth leadership will tolerate an adult, registered or otherwise, interfering in a Scout patrol's operations.

 

One of my proudest moments as Scoutmaster was when a Scout who had been with us for almost a year asked his Patrol Leader how he knew the Scoutmaster. "He's my Dad," was the answer.

 

- Oren

 

[EagleInKY]

We stole the "no parent's on outings" slogan from Oren's Grump manual. We often say the same thing. No parents are allowed, but adults are certainly welcome.

[orennoah]

Thanks for the endorsement of our Grump Patrol Manual, the "written adult training" in referred to above.

 

It can be found at: http://www.scouttroop14.org/PDFs/grumpmanual.PDF

 

Comments always welcome.

 

- Oren

[kenk]

I read the Grump Patrol Manual a while back and really REALLY liked it. Nice job!

 

Right now I'm a brand new assistant Scoutmaster so I'm trying to stay a bit quiet regarding changes/improvements in our small troop, but I do think the Grump Patrol Manual would be a great help to my our troop. If we generate our own version of the Grump Patrol Manual I'll make sure your troop gets the credit it deserves.

 

Last weekend was our first campout (in a cabin) and I was doing my best to be a leader - not a parent, though it was a bit hard at times. When my son (or any other boy) would ask me if he could do this or that, I'd send him to the senior patrol leader. They formed new patrols at the campout and haven't yet voted for patrol leaders, so for now all eyes should be on the SPL.

 

Ken K.

[ozemu]

We don't seem to have the problem. Some camps are advertised as Family camps. Other times I ask specific people to come and help but generally speaking the parents stay away in droves.

 

if a Scout is having homesickness issues I encourage the parent to come along and camp with the leader patrol. I would rather that than the Scout stays at home.

 

Parents doing chores? I think that they would not stay with our Troop for very long.

[DanKroh]

The only time I would see it as appropriate for a "parent" to be along on a campout is if the scout in question has some sort of disability that requires the scout to have extra help that an adult leader may not have the time and/or skill to assist with.

 

I believe I am a case in point. My son has high-functioning autism. I go along on campouts with him because I don't expect the adult leaders to know how to handle the peculiarities of his condition. However, I try to take as much of a "hands-off" approach as I can, and only intervene when necessary. Since I'm the Cubmaster for one of the town's packs, and most of the troop's leaders know me in a scout-leader capacity, they probably think of me as one of the other leaders, even though I hold no official leadership position in the troop (being Cubmaster keeps me busy enough). I don't see myself as being there for the other scouts, just because I don't want to "step on the toes" of the real adult leaders, authority wise; but I don't ignore the other scouts, and try to be helpful when appropriate.

 

My hope is that some day my son will be able to go on campouts without me along as a parent. Of course, by the time this happens, his little brother with probably cross over into the troop and I'll be an ASM by then....

[DugNevius]

If a scout is homesick and his father comes on the trips and sleeps with the patrol, how does that help the scout in the long run grow?