Active or Kicked-Out???

[ASM59]

Hello,

 

I am going to open this discussion again regarding what does active in the Troop mean, as I think this has a new twist:

 

I was talking a few days ago to our Council Advancement Chair about setting standards with in a Troop for what Active means. His response was that "active" means "chartered". So, as has been stated here many times, as long as a Scout is chartered, he is to be considered active. He did add one more thing, "It is the Scoutmaster's responsibility to remove any Scout from the Troop if he is not active, or not to allow them to recharter if they are not active." He based these statements on what he learned at a BSA National Advancement (Eagle) Training Seminar that he attended.

 

So, my question is about Scouts who have parents that pay to recharter each year, but have not participated in any meetings or outings (zero) for two or more years. Is it really the Scoutmaster's responsibility to have him removed from the charter, or not allow him to recharter?

 

ASM59

[scoutingagain]

I don't know if it is the Scoutmaster's job specifically, but the explanation I got from our district is that the charter represents who is active in the unit, and it is up to the unit to determine who is on the charter. So, if a scout is on a unit charter, as far as anyone outside the unit is concerned, the scout is considered active.

 

 

SA

[SR540Beaver]

Once a year during one of our troop meetings, we handle our recharter. Announcments are made, phone calls made and newsletters mailed. We can't make it any easier oe well known than that. If we have "inactive" scouts who chose not to show up or respond to our numerous appeals, they are dropped from the charter. It isn't just a matter of any boy who doesn't show up that night. The active boys and their parents know what is happening and make other arrangements if they can't be there for some reason. Even the inactive boys get a final call. But if they don't come to meetings or outings for the majority of the year and don't come to the recharter meeting, they are dropped. Wouldn't you say that they have already made their intentions known?

 

It really isn't that big of a deal. If they came back a month later, they can re-register and pick up where they left off. That being said, they will have to be "active" if they want to advance or be considered for leadership positions. They can't be gone for nine months and show up for elections and throw their name in the hat or ask for a BOR for advancement.

[ASM59]

Thanks for the responses.

Beaver, you stated:

"If they came back a month later, they can re-register and pick up where they left off. That being said, they will have to be "active" if they want to advance or be considered for leadership positions. They can't be gone for nine months and show up for elections and throw their name in the hat or ask for a BOR for advancement."

 

According to our Council Advancement Chair, providing that a Life Scout fulfilled his 6 months of active participation and held a position for that time, then you would have to give him a BOR if he came back to re-join.

For example; I have a Life Scout who is 17 years old, has not been to a meeting or outing since he was 13, before he stopped attending he was PL for 6 months, his mother has paid his dues and recharter every year that he has been inactive. Even if we did not notify Mom last year about recharter or if we called Council to have him dropped, he could rejoin at any time, finish his Eagle Service Project and get his BOR.

Same thing holds true for one of our Star Scouts that has not been in a meeting or on an outing for just over two years and was dropped from the charter this year. As long as he held a POR long enough to meet the requirement, he could re-join tomorrow and expect a Scoutmaster Conference and a BOR next week. At least this is how our Council Advancement Chair explains it...

 

ASM59

[SR540Beaver]

ASM59,

 

True. If he has already fulfilled the requirements, you could give him the BOR. I'm talking about not being around for 6 to 12 months AND considering yourself "active" because you were on the charter. Having already fulfilled requirements and being away for 6 months is different from being away for 6 months and thinking you should be considered active when you return.

[GernBlansten]

This thread got me to review our recent recharter. There are 4 or 5 scouts on it that are fully paid (not by the troop) for 2006. None of them have been "active" in at least 2 years. But their parents or they themselves paid the fee. Should we remove them from the list or leave them to fatten our re-charter numbers for council? Is it unethical to consider these scouts as active from a registration standpoint? If a scout is fully paid, why would you want to remove him from the roster?

[rkfrance]

I would look at it from the point of who's paying. If it is the Scout or family that continues to pay the fee, the Scout should be on the charter and considered "active". Yeah, they should let you know what is going on or why he's not coming.

 

If the unit or CO pays, then we come into a question of padding numbers. If it is done out of good faith because Scout or family couldn't afford it at the time is another consideration.

 

At recharter, our District has taken a position to call all dropped boys and those not advancing. We've come across several units that chose to pay for boys that quit coming years ago to maintain their numbers. It really affected the units financially to maintain the charade. Then when they couldn't afford it anymore, tons of dropped boys in one year. Big red flags.

 

 

[EagleInKY]

At times I'm amazed at what parents will pay for. I can't imagine paying the fees for a program my son or daughter hadn't been involved in for two years!

 

We have a lad that joined last summer. He's very inactive. He typically comes to about 1 meeting every two months. He's attended two campouts - summer camp and a weekend campout. He's literally joined at the hip with his dad. (It's actually kind of scary, but that's another topic).

 

We hadn't seen him since November and were in the midst of rechartering. I had sent out a few e-mails, but no responses. One of the ASMs ran into them at Walmart and asked where they'd been. They showed up the next Monday night and paid the recharter fee. I was amazed. We didn't see them for another month after that. Last week his dad was asking "what could he do to help him advance?". (He still hasn't made Tenderfoot in 8 months). We told him, "Let him participate!".

[scoutldr]

Correct me if I'm wrong...One disadvantage of having inactive scouts on the charter: You have to have more than 50% of the registered scouts present in order to have a valid OA election. If you have 25 registered, and only 10 show up...no election.

 

One reason parents may continue paying registration...it looks good on a college application or job resume - "Member, Boy Scouts of America".

[ASM59]

Beaver,

 

Thanks for clarifying. I think you are right from the standpoint of holding a POR, but if you mean active in the Troop/Patrol that's a horse of a different color. I have been told that any Scout on the charter is to be considered active (even if he has not been there for 2 or 3 years). We can however, set requirement for what is considered active when a Scout is holding a POR; if I understand correctly...

 

ASM59

[ASM59]

In re-reading my last post, I should have said:

 

We can set requirements regarding a particular POR. If the Scout is not performing his job, he can be removed from his POR. If however, the Scout is not removed from his POR and he holds the position for the required time, he is considered to have fulfilled the requirement.

 

ASM59

[CNYScouter]

ASM59 said:

We can set requirements regarding a particular POR. If the Scout is not performing his job, he can be removed from his POR. If however, the Scout is not removed from his POR and he holds the position for the required time, he is considered to have fulfilled the requirement.

 

I'm curious, is this in a BSA publication? which one?

[Venividi]

ASM59,

 

Do what is right for the troop and the scout, wthout concern for what National considers active. If you don't see 6 months of actively participating with the troop, don't sign off on the requirement. If the family escallates, and National gives credit for non-activity, that is fine. But let them do it, rather than supporting what you may consider a low level of scout spirit. Stand up for the values that you and your other adult leaders believe in. You know the scout(s) involved. National doesn't.

 

Our troop had a tradition of keeping non-active scouts on the role. In retrospect, I don't see where that did anybody any good (except for, as scoutldr notes, resume padding)

[ASM59]

Thanks for the feedback again.

 

CNY... The Council Advancement Chair has stated that the following is true according to National:

 

"Active mean registered. For a leadership position, it mean assigned to that position, period."

 

He sites the following from National in the way of documentation:

"Please see #33088F, The Eagle Application, 2006 Requirements, and the Scout Handbook. In that order of precedence, as they do contradict each other."

 

So, the short answer is that he says these statements are written in BSA policy.

 

Venividi...

I would tend to agree, but we have no adults in our Troop who have helped to take a Scout from Life rank to Eagle. I have been reading, asking questions and perusing the internet for information so I can run an informational seminar for the Boys and parents and Troop Leadership regarding this subject. I asked our District Advancement Chair to sit in on my seminar, and shared my PowerPoint slides with her. She shared it at the Council Level and I have been informed of errors; "we cannot consider any boy that is chartered to be inactive, nor can we not approve his requirement for POR if he was not removed for lack of fulfilling his duty".

 

So, here we are, only trying to do what is right by National, Council, District, Troop, and the Scouts (contradictions all the way - Oh What Fun). Our adult leadership feels that if we have no more control over it than this, that Eagle rank no longer has any validity and has lost its significance.

 

ASM59

[FScouter]

Boys that don't attend meetings, don't do campouts, don't particpate in troop events also don't get elected or appointed to positions of responsibility. Likewise, boys that don't participate don't complete rank requirements either.

 

Council and national people don't get involved in these kinds of advancement issues unless the Scoutmaster is denying a boy advancement because the boy missed some meetings or campouts or was below an arbitrary attendance percentage.

 

Ask the boy if he considers himself "active" and what he has done to remain "active".