The high cost of Scouting goods.

[Bobanon]

Is is just me, or are there others out there that find the prices of items one can purchase though the BSA supply division, or at your local Scout Service Center to be exceedingly high.

 

I purchased a new Scout shirt several years ago and within weeks of receiving it had to sew most of the buttons back on. Is this shoddy workmanship something the BSA wants purchasers to see?

 

You can purchase camping gear from many different sources that are the same items in the Scout Catalog but are cheaper in price. Sometimes the difference is surprising.

 

I have also had complaints from parents for years about the high cost of uniforms. Granted, I have kids now, and have had kids in Packs or Troops that didn't have money, and we recylced uniform shirts. Half of the kids I've worked come from poor homes. I have never required the kids to have a full uniform, only a Scout shirt.

 

I hate to sound crabby but this is something that really irks me.

[John-in-KC]

Let's take equipment separate from uniforms.

 

With few exceptions, Supply Division no longer has equipment made for Scouts... such as backpacks, frames, and sleeping bags. They offer opportunities for the major makers to sell one or two of their wares. If you, or a knowledgable Scouter in your area, knows a fair bit about outdoor gear, you can get better bargains for quality gear outside the Scout system.

 

Uniforms? I have not had the problems you describe. If you search my posts in the Uniforms thread you will find messages where I have gripes, but they are to the fabrics Supply Division chooses, as well as fit and finish of the trousers in particular. I've not encountered construction problems such as you describe.

 

Many units work hard to help their Scouts get a good uniform for less. Many units have an experienced uniform closet. Leaders go out to thrift stores and scrounge uniform articles to help their Scouts. While my son was growing, I malice aforethought bought bigger than he was at the moment, knowing full well he'd grow into the item.

 

At the same time, I've dropped $500 for a tuba for him. It was almost fabricated, rather than built. The guts of the instrument may be as much as 70 years old, while some of the other pieces are rather newer (this from the local instrument repair specialist). Other band parents blanch at the price of quality instruments as their children show their skill. I know HS football parents who rent their kids gear, season by season, for $300 a pop. Let's be blunt: Providing a child quality equipment for the activities he pursues just isn't inexpensive anymore.

 

Just some thoughts. I hope they help put things in perspective.

[MaScout]

We live in a severely economically depressed area. We have Scouts whose parents DO NOT drop that kind of money on activities. If there is much cost involved, the youth DO NOT participate! We have a problem with uniform cost, too. We run annual "uniform drives", purchase every inexpensive Scout shirt we find at thrift shops, buy them at auctions, etc. We, too, only ask for a shirt. I have bought some shirts myself. We have a program through our District called "Scoutreach", and they have provided shirts for us. I have asked people in the community if they would consider purchasing a shirt for a lad. All we ask is that they give them back to the pack or troop when they leave.

 

The camping gear we NEVER purchase through the Scout Shop or catalog. But we have a very hard time with the uniform costs.

 

For those of you who who think it isn't really a problem, consider the single parent raising 5 children on $800 per month, or less. YES, it IS a problem. A very BIG problem! These youth don't play school sports unless we (the other parents) make sure they have "experienced" cleats, loaned horns, etc.

[SR540Beaver]

I think part of the reason for high cost uniform pieces is that they are made in the USA. I think the other reason is because they have a monopoly with the uniform and they can ask whatever price they want. Yes, I've had buttons come unsewn shortly after buying the shirts. Notice I said unsewn. They didn't pop off or get ripped off, they came unsewn. I also had the shoulder seam start coming unsewn shortly after buying my first shirt a few years back. While many advocate for a new uniform, I have too much invested for it to change. In addition to the uniform shirt, pants and socks I had with our unit info on it, I ha to have 3 uniform shirts, 3 pairs of short, 6 pairs of socks and 2 web belts for Jamboree. So now I have 4 uniforms hanging in my closet. I can't afford a change in uniform!!!

 

Our unit expects as full of a uniformas a boy can muster if he is in leaership and for SM conferences, BOR's and COH's. For campouts, we expect them to wear their shirts coming and going. During the campout they can wear most "anything" they want that is appropriate. I have had my eye on a pair of hiker pants from Cabela's for some time. They have very nice sized bellows cargo pockets with velcro flaps. There is a knife pocket and a D ring sewn in by the belt loop. The belt loops are the wide variety and the waist band has elastic in it. Also, the pants have double kneesin them. They come in olive. As opposed to the scout pants, these are great for the field and cost $29. They are my new camp pants.

[OldGreyEagle]

As I have perused the forum since I joined this forum, I have seen a real dichotomy when it comes to how people spend money.

 

When we have discussions on uniforms, I perceive the general consensus is the uniform costs to much, even if it was 100% unflawed 100% of the time. People economics are frequently mentioned.

 

Then when we talk about equipment, tents, and the like I tend to think of posters advocating higher cost equipment and not gnerally the economic condition of the poster locale.

 

When we talk about Summer Camp and related ills, it appears most posters are in favor uf upgrading the staff, facilities and program. All of which takes big bucks and no one mentions they are from economically depressed areas.

 

We do mention seemingly exploding professional ranks and building projects and question if its necessary.

 

So, when is money spent on Scouting a good investment and when is it not so good?

 

Please note, I understand there are economically depresse areas, I do not mean to imply there arent, it does seem like we hear from the depressed areas when uniforms are discussed but not when discussions of trips to Philmont and other high adventures treks are involved

[Lisabob]

OGE, especially in cub scouts, I think the reason you hear a lot more about economically depressed areas in the context of uniform discussion and not in other contexts, is that most cub packs do not do a lot of expensive outings. While I'm sure there are exceptions, around here when cubs go camping, they frequently borrow gear from a local troop rather than buy their own, and they usually don't go very far (or very long, or in really lousy weather conditions) so they don't need a lot of expensive or specialized gear. And of course they don't attend places like Philmont either. Resident camp is the most expensive activity that most packs take part in, and they usually work hard to defray the cost via popcorn sales or other fundraisers. Expenses like that can be planned for far in advance, and dealt with incrementally. Uniforming, for packs that require it, tends to be a more up front, immediate cost that parents pay out of pocket.

 

That isn't to say cubs don't have fun or that they don't get outside - but that they do it in a low/no cost kind of way most of the time. So for most cubs, the biggest expense related to joining (other than possibly dues) is going to be the uniform.

 

I must say that in the year since my son joined boy scouts (from cubs) I've been appalled at the attitude some leaders seem to have toward money. I've met many who seem to believe that all families involved in boy scouts have a wealthy uncle who foots the bill or something and think little of asking boys (parents) to shell out A LOT of money on short notice for various activities (I'm talking upwards of $200 for trips, often with just a couple weeks' notice). We would never have expected the families in our cub pack to do that and they'd have screamed bloody murder and probably quit if we had .

 

Lisa'bob

 

 

[AkelaT]

Are the cost of scout goods high? You bet. Is the quality of the scouts goods not as good as it used to be years go? Again yes. A recent case in point I purchased some new Cub Handbooks and shirts, within a day the covers were coming off just from looking through them, not heavy use. The shirts, brand new, had loose threads and buttons coming off right and left. Could supply division do a better job with suppliers without raising prices, Yes they could.

 

Now the other side of the coin, the BSA takes a lot of money to keep running, registration fees are not nearly enough, so where does that money come from, sales from the supply division. Without these sales there would be no program support, no councils. As far as uniforms we haave just created a uniform bank where scouters, scouts, and former scouts donate their old outgrown uniforms. We add to that supply from thrift stores who either give us or sell us at a nominal fee uniforms they get in. So there are ways to keep costs down. Without supply division sales however the BSA program would be little more than a shell of what it is today. Just my 2 cents worth.

[MaScout]

I realize that it takes a lot of money to keep Scouting going. We are very creative in how we help our young men afford Scouting.

 

OGE mentions that we don't often hear about the high cost of trips like Philmont... The primary reason is that troops from economically depressed areas simply DO NOT participate. They can't afford to. The once every 10 years that they do, they apply for camperships, and save for it for several YEARS. But mostly...we just don't go. Summer camp is much the same...we save for a couple years to be able to afford to send them ONE year. Often, we still need to apply for financial assistance.

 

 

 

[ASM59]

Hello,

 

Our Troop has always tried to keep costs as low as we possibly can. A typical two night camp out will cost the boys about $7, depending on where we are camping. In January, we use the facilities at a Christian Retreat Center for free; the boys are only charged for food (we have a relationship with this facility; we have created and maintain a nature trail and do other projects for them and they let us use the facility). There are additional savings in that our CO pays for each member's recharter and Boys Life subscription every year.

 

We have always felt that based on the above that the purchase of a Scout Uniform Shirt (all our Troop requires to be in uniform) is not much to ask. This year is different than any before. We have 4 or possibly 5 boys whose parent (single moms) can barely afford the outing costs. Two of those Scouts have had to have Troop assistance to attend several of our recent outings. We do not live in a "rich" area, nor would I consider it an impoverished area, but these Moms are doing their best and struggling.

 

I have managed to uniform these boys for now by visiting thrift stores and EBay and having the Troop purchase patches. One of the shirts is quite small and I need to locate an adult small or medium for one of these Scouts, but for now all are uniformed.

 

I have a new sense of empathy for those who have made the case for the expense of uniforms, but I think in most cases there are ways to get everyone uniformed.

 

ASM59

[OldGreyEagle]

I am sorta surprised our old buddy Evmori hasnt reminded us that a uniform isnt required to be a boy scout. While I agree that all scouts should have a uniform, and should look to ways to acquire one, I would rather have a boy be an un-uniformed scout than have him not be a scout. Perhaps just wearing a neckerchief could be done until a uniform could be procured.

[Eamonn]

While I don't see our family as being wealthy. Whatever that might mean?? We are not short of a couple of bucks.

I have at times gone wild and bought very expensive items. Cashmere sweaters, jackets from Burberry in London and the like.

Her Who Must Be Obeyed hates to shop. In fact she jokes that Mall is a four letter word. I love to shop and finding a good buy is in some way my way of beating the system.

When it comes to Scout stuff, we used to be able to buy seconds from the National Store in Pittsburgh, but they no longer sell seconds. Scout uniforms never seem to go on sale.

I don't think I have ever bought any clothing from Wal-Mart or K-Mart. I tend to be more of a Sears or JC-Penny Shopper, but I still don't pay $40.00 for a pair of shorts. I normally wait till they are on sale and buy two pair for about $30.00.

OJ informs me that he was given a hard time at an OA section officers training for not wearing the polyester/wool Scout Shirt. I have shirts made by really good shirt makers that don't cost anything like the $50.55 that the BSA is charging. I think the $32.45 for a shirt that I think is worth about $19.95 is out of line.

Thankfully we have managed to buy a lot of uniforms when we have been asked to serve on Council Courses or when he has been going to the Jamboree or on Camp Staff. On these occasions our Council sells us uniform items at cost.

After some searching the web I did manage to find a supplier who is selling our Sea Scouts the working uniform (Chambray Shirt and blue pants) for $15.00. They are marked imperfect but the quality of the shirt is far better than the BSA shirt. We have had some problem with pants sizing, it seems that the pattern they use is from the U.S. Navy and is a little off. But with embroidery and patches we can get a Sea Scout in working uniform for less than $30.00. Many of the Ships don't seem to bother with the pants and do allow blue jeans, so they could get their Sea Scouts up and going for about $20.00.

Eamonn.

[Newbie Den Leader]

Uniforms have always been expensive and they were expensive when I was a Scout in the 1970's. The "made in the USA" is a factor. The BSA could contract with a compnay in China to make them, but I don't think the BSA wants to be indentified with a communist government.

 

Cost is a real issue with all of us, but our willingness to spend money on a uniform is also directly tied to our level involvement and enthusiam.

 

The 100% cotton shirts are the best value. They are only $5.00 more than the cotton/poly shirts, but the quality of the fabric is remarkably higher and little heavier; it looks nicer. The buttons do not come off either.

 

Camping Gear? Wal-Mart

Cheaper Uniforms? E-Bay

 

[scoutingagain]

I won't get into a discussion on the cost of the uniform. But for those that are looking to outfit themselves or their unit for backpacking should check out http://www.scoutdirect.com/. This site had been mentioned in the forums before. We checked it out and for our High Knoll trip last year purchased 5 backpacking tents and 6 backpacks. The tents and backpacks ran about $70 each. They were of excellent quality, held up well and they are still in use. In short, we found the testimonials on their website to be true.

 

Wish I could find such an outlet for uniforms.

 

SA