Troop / Pack cooperation

[ASM59]

For some reason, I cannot "spin-off" a new topic. This topic is supposed to be a spin-off from another: http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=124180

I wanted to take the discussion in another direction.

 

Background: We live in a smaller town (pop.4000). There are towns of similar or slightly larger size 4-5 miles away in several directions. Our Troop has always received Boys from the Pack in our town every year. The truth of the matter is that most parents will not drive 5 miles (10 minutes or more) each way to deliver their son to a Troop meeting, so we had never experienced the local Pack looking at other Troops as a possibility for their "graduating" Webelos Two Scouts. In the last year or so, we have had the situation where they have looked at a Troop in a neighboring town. Our Troop Committee felt some offense at their doing this, but now understand that this is more normal than we have experienced in the past.

 

I wanted to ask how many of you are in the same situation as we are in our town. For example, there really isn't much of a possibility that Webelos would look at another Troop as a possibility.

 

Some of you are in larger towns where there may be more than one Troop and/or more than one Pack. In that case, what is the relationship like with the Pack(s)? Is there "competition" between the Troops to get the Webelos from the Pack(s)? What is the relationship (if any) between Troops that are in the same town?

 

Your thoughts on this are appreciated...

 

ASM59

[John-in-KC]

Speaking as a COR,

 

You had better believe there is competition for graduating Cubs. Any feeder relationship IS ONLY AS GOOD AS THE SUPPORT THE TROOP GIVES TO THE PACK:

 

- Den Chiefs.

- J-staff at Cub Day Camps

- Youth staff at Council Webelos Resident Camp

- Programs to assist the Cub advancement program (ie, bike riding days to help with Sports and Athletics cycling or Webelos pin colleges).

 

I do not believe it unreasonable for the Troop of a feeding relationship to detail an ASM whose sole job in Scouting is: How does Troop 1 support Pack 1.

 

 

[gwd-scouter]

I get the feeling it's less of a competition in our area and more of a "how dare you mess with OUR cubscouts."

 

A couple of months ago, I contacted a couple of web II dens in our district asking if they'd like to schedule a visit to our troop and join us on a campout. Got a great big no thanks from the CMs and DLs saying that their webelos always went to such and such troop.

 

Must admit, same was true while I was CM for the largest pack in our district. Webs II ALWAYS crossed over to the Troop (also largest in the district) that had the same CO and met at the same time. Seemed natural to me at the time.

 

Before I was CM, I was DL for my oldest son. When time came for the den to cross over, I didn't know, nor did anyone ever mention to me, that we could or even should check out other troops. So, off they went to the biggest troop in town.

 

Less than 2 years later, my son was miserable and wanted to quit scouts (all the other boys from his den had already quit). Not necessarily an indictment on the troop, but it does have a rather large drop out rate of new boys that aren't natural leaders or more emotionally mature for their age.

 

We visited a couple of other troops and oldest son found a smaller troop that was a better fit for him. Few more years later, he made Eagle and continued to work with the troop till he left for college last year. Youngest son crossed over from the previously mentioned pack for which I was still CM. Both of us went off to the smaller troop.

 

I've learned a lot the past 2 years being involved with a Troop. I had no idea before then how difficult it is to recruit boys to a troop when there are several other troops around that already have a history of a feeder pack.

 

From what I see among the other troops in town, none has much of a relationship with their pack. One exception is the Catholic Church which has a very strong relationship between the Troop and Pack. The others seem to just assume they'll get the Webs without any effort.

 

For instance, when I was CM for Pack xxx, our Troop xxx never did anything to help us out other than receive the Webs II at crossover. I asked them many times for Den Chiefs (not interested), help during campouts and other activites (not interested). They really didn't even want to invite the Webs II dens along on an outing.

 

In fact, our roundtable meetings usually erupt whenever a cub leader mentions having Webs invited to camporees. With every few exceptions, our Boy Scout leaders DO NOT WANT cubscouts along on their camporess.

 

So it goes. At least in our District, not so much competition as: if you're in pack xxx you go to troop xxx.

 

Have had an idea for a while that maybe a District Webelos Transition Coordinator might be a new position to add to District Committee. Perhaps after I step down as SM in a few years, that might be something to pursue.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ASM59]

An interesting perspective GWD...

Also, sad that you cannot have involvement, yet the Troop offering no help is getting the boys from the Pack. It doesn't seem to be normal in our area for Packs and Troops to be chartered with the same CO. But, I guess a similar thing holds true; if you are a Webelos II Scout in town A, you will be going to the Troop in Town A. This is just the way it has always been.

 

Keep the comments coming, I'd like more perspectives on this...

 

Thanks,

ASM59

[funscout]

My community has 2 troops and 4 feeder Packs. The 2 "town" Packs traditionally feed into Troop A, while the 2 "country" packs typically feed into Troop B. Troop A does not invite Webelos to attend Camporee or Klondike Derby so some of the "town" packs' Webelos are now going to Troop B. I think our community does need 2 troops, but I fear that Troop A is going to continue to shrink if they don't maintain a relationship with Webelos like Troop B does.

 

The 2 troops meet on different nights, so some boys do end up choosing a troop based on the day of the week that works best for them.

[Lisabob]

There are 3 troops and 8 packs in our town, plus another 2 troops (and 3 or 4 packs) in the next town over, 5 miles away.

 

Generally, troops recruit based on school district lines but there is one pack in my town that's right on the line and sends a few boys to troops in the next town every couple of years.

 

In our town, the three troops are widely divergent in terms of "personality," recruiting style and relationships with packs.

 

One troop is small, doesn't recruit much, and only has a close relationship with the pack sponsored by their church. Ironically they were also the most helpful to me when I was a WDL. Although they had never received any boys from our pack before, they were willing to attend occasional events with us and invited our webelos to a couple of their events, including a district camporee. They tried (without success but at least they tried) to get den chiefs for us, which is more than I can say for the other troops in town who appeared to ignore the matter.

 

They were also very up front with parents that any boy who joins is expected to have at least one parent be active in some manner. I'll be honest, this scared off a few of our families. As a somewhat burned out WDL at the time, I could understand this but it was a shame; they are a really nice group.

 

The other two troops are generally more competitive in terms of recruitment and have "feeder" relationships established with multiple packs. Our pack usually "feeds" into troop A, so troop B didn't even bother to contact us for their events. In fact they were surprised when I sought them out so our boys could get to know them. Troop A, the one our pack usually connects with, more or less ignored the pack except for inviting us to one lock in, and coming to B&G. They're nice people but I was unimpressed.

 

My son chose troop A anyway because that's where his friends were going and he wanted to be with them. His friends wanted to go there because a) it is the biggest troop in town with a reputation for doing a lot of camping, and b) it has a reputation for being the best organized (well this was their parents' interest, not something the boys cared about - but it was a big, big draw for several parents).

 

I think changing these "feeder" relationships is healthy. Things get stale and neither side is terribly helpful to the other in a lot of these relationships.

 

Lisa'bob

[Trevorum]

In the past, our troop has been accused of unfair "poaching" into the territory of neighboring troops. We have one pack across the street (our "territory", I suppose) and 5 or 6 more with a few miles radius. Webelos who "should have" gone to other troops joined ours instead.

 

Other than always putting on a good Webelos Woods effort, we have never actively "recruited". Our scouts serve as Den Chiefs for 3 diifferent packs and our OA brothers provide AoL ceremonies for any pack that wants one. When Webelos make the circuit of visiting various troops, they see an active, fun, boy-run troop and we always welcome them warmly. That's the best recruiting there is.

[John-in-KC]

Trevorum, in this thread, and SWScouter, in the related thread, both hit a key point:

 

Friendliness and Cheerfulness; two elements of the Scout Law. If the Cubs see this in action routinely, be it at Webelos Woods, a pin college, District Camporee, Day Camp, or whatever, they will gravitate towards those Boy Scouts.

 

So I'll add that to my list: Service to the Pack by the Troop has to be done willingly, within the true spirit of the Scout Oath and Law. Elsewise, there will not be a relationship...

 

 

[EagleInKY]

Several thoughts, I'll try to be succinct (for once:) ). Around here, Packs are generally aligned with school districts (one per elementary school). There are fewer troops, but not by much. Most of the packs have an associated troop, and most troops have an associated pack. Probably 90% of Cubs go to their associated troop. For example, we are associated with a pack (same CO, same number, several shared adult leaders). But there is another troop in our small town, three or four in a town 5 miles away, two in a town 7 miles away, and two or three more ina town 10-12 miles away.

 

Before we started our troop three years ago, our Webelos scattered to the wind. If you had 10 Webelos, no more than 2 or 3 would go to the same troop. We found that we were having an enormously high drop out rate. Most of the boys were dropping out within one year. Even though we had a loose associatiation with the troop in our area (same CO, but different number and no shared leadership). When we outgrew the CO, we found a new sponsor and started a new troop with a stronger relationship. It's worked out very well.

 

A couple of points, I have not had any luck recruiting from other packs. Their relationships have been in place so long, they usually want even return my calls. Even the one pack that is just a few miles away and doesn't have a troop won't return my calls. "They've always gone to Troop x", is the standard reply. So, I've generally not pushed recruiting these guys. Maybe I should, but it's just not been a big item for me. I'm going to make a bigger effort in that next year.

 

Second, I've found that troops that sell well with parents (and to some degree the kids too), are not necessarily the best troops. The best troop that recruits in our area is the huge MB mill I've mentioned before. They put on quite a show. But in my opinion, they don't have a good BSA program. They have a good program, it just follows their book, not the BSAs. I've also seen that scouts that come into their program from the outside (i.e. not from their pack), have a difficult time assimilating into the group. I found that over a period of about six years, over 90% of the scouts that graduated from our pack had dropped out. Most of them in the first few months.

 

Anyway, if you have an associated pack, work to keep the relationship strong. Den Chiefs, color guards for special events, helping with the pinewood derby, joint service projects and sharing adult leaders are some of the ways to make that happen.