quitka Posted January 20, 2006 Share Posted January 20, 2006 Hi. I'm new to this forum and relatively new to scouting so please bear with me.. Our CC is trying to rid our CM and assistant CM. Long story, but in general there are personality differences. Actually, the CC has always come across as a showboat, NEVER wore the uniform til Blue and Gold, prefers to wear his armed forces uniform to functions and meetings. CC has YET to receive any training, yet has approached the CO and UC about "taking over" as CM. He's convinced the CO to threaten to revoke our charter if we don't change CMs. All DLs, ADLs and committee members have no problem with the current CM. He is volunteering even though his own son in no longer a cub. Is it true that the CC has "all the power"? If so, what can we do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SemperParatus Posted January 20, 2006 Share Posted January 20, 2006 Welcome. Get all the DLs, ADLs and other MCs together and go to the same COR and UC and let them know that you all support the CM and not the CC. While you are at it, ask the COR to appoint another CC since this one does not have the confidence of the pack's leaders, has not taken training and is on some kind of power trip to appoint himself CM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greying Beaver Posted January 20, 2006 Share Posted January 20, 2006 That is exactly what to do and how to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johndaigler Posted January 20, 2006 Share Posted January 20, 2006 Amen. jd And, WELCOME to the campfire!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FScouter Posted January 20, 2006 Share Posted January 20, 2006 At the same time, it would be good to ensure that those other adult leaders own and have read the Cub Scout Leader book, have taken the training for their respective positions, and are following the BSA Cub Scout program. You don't need the CC rightfully pointing out deficiencies in the other leaders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johndaigler Posted January 20, 2006 Share Posted January 20, 2006 Very True, FScouter! Sometimes I wonder if a team with a direction, even if it's the wrong direction, is better than a leader heading in one direction and the team heading in the other... I know the argument ... "NO Leader is better than a Bad Leader". Philososphically, I get that, and agree. But in a practical sense, since no Scouter is all bad, then perhaps more good comes from the "misdirected" team, than a team that won't follow a "good" leader . . . / ? ? ? ? What do ya think? jd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisabob Posted January 20, 2006 Share Posted January 20, 2006 Where do the CM and the ACM fit into this picture? Have they been trained? Are they actually doing their jobs? The Committee Chair does in fact have a lot of power, but not unlimted power. This CC appears to think otherwise and needs to be reined in (and perhaps replaced but perhaps not). Do you have a unit commissioner? (if your answer is no, or "what is a UC?" then you should contact your district leaders and ask them about it - every unit is supposed to have a UC assigned to them). If so, this is a good place for him or her to provide a little insight to the committee as a whole. Perhaps, in doing so, a messy confrontation involving the COR could be avoided. In some cases CORs are highly visible and active with their units but it seems like it is more often hte case that the COR really doesn't want much to do with the units they charter, and would certainly prefer not to wade into a messy leadership battle if it is possible to avoid it. Among other things - your UC may be in a position, as an outside "friend" to the unit but not a member of it, to tell the CC that in most cases it isn't appropriate to wear his military uniform to a scout event. BSA studiously avoids looking or acting like a military or paramilitary organization. Your CC is rightfully proud of his military background, but there are better ways for him to honor that background than wearing his military uniform to scout events. Lisa'bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quitka Posted January 20, 2006 Author Share Posted January 20, 2006 Thanks, everyone for all the advice. Actually, Yes, the other DLs (I'm the only ADL) have gotten together and are in agreement that the current CM and ACM are good leaders. They have been trained, are actually former Eagle Scouts themselves, and have a lot of experience in scouting. They helped create the pack back when their sons were Tigers, but they're now moved on as Boy Scouts. They have generously agreed to stay-on (as long as we want them to). CM has told us to "go talk to the UC" since he "has no power" himself, that it would be better. We have made several attempts to the UC, but he has never been in, or seems to avoid us. Our CM has outright asked the UC if there is a problem with him (CM). No. We all just want the UC and COR to be straight with us. We can't even go to the roundtable meetings because it is at the exact same time as the pack's meeting. Some insight as to why this is all happening now, is that the church (our CO) has undergone new leadership, apparently even they are losing parishioners. They have recently accused us of "leaving messes" when we've always checked and made sure everything was better than we found; they changed some church meetings to the same night as our pack meeting time and have told us we weren't allowed to use the rooms, etc. If it's a matter of losing our charter, we've already found some other willing organizations to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FScouter Posted January 20, 2006 Share Posted January 20, 2006 "... then perhaps more good comes from the "misdirected" team, than a team that won't follow a 'good' leader . . ." There may be strong teams of leaders marching in lock step, arm in arm, down a path of their own design. They may even be doing some good things for boys. But if they are not on the Scouting path, they are not doing Scouting. They are not fulfilling the BSA mission, they're fulfilling the own personal mission. (In my opinion) this kind of leadership is bad, and far worse than the disarray of 1 or 2 leaders trying to pull the rest onto the Scouting path. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quitka Posted January 20, 2006 Author Share Posted January 20, 2006 FScouter--thanks for the response. As to "strong teams of leaders marching lock step", are you referring to the majority of DLs and the MCs who want to keep the current CM? I can't see how we've not been doing things the scouting way....we have all gotten training, wear our leader uniforms, plan all the activities, hold monthly leader meetings (to which this CC rarely attends), etc. Even the CM and ACM has done the work of contacting COR and UC when necessary. The CM just last week spoke with the COR about our charter and was told things were okay... Just yesterday, the CC went around announcing himself as "the new" CM. Then he went around to each parent asking "whose side they were on" when we (the DLs and MCs) weren't going to air this to the parents until we could 1) talk to the UC and/or COR; 2)straighten this mess out. Things seem fishy.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScoutNut Posted January 20, 2006 Share Posted January 20, 2006 If you are having trouble getting a hold of your Unit Commissioner (please remember he is a volunteer just like you & most likely has a full time job outside of scouting) call your council or check your council/district website & get the contact info for your District Commissioner. Your DC will be able to either get your UC on the ball, or help your unit out himself. It sounds like your CO's new leadership needs a refresher course on what their responsibilities are. It also sounds like the Committee Chair is taking advantage of the upheaval with your Charter Org. BTW - Your Unit Commissioner (UC) does not have any "power" in your unit either, but they are mentors & can help get things going on the right BSA track. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScoutNut Posted January 20, 2006 Share Posted January 20, 2006 "hold monthly leader meetings (to which this CC rarely attends)" "Just yesterday, the CC went around announcing himself as "the new" CM." I'm sorry, but this guy sounds like a goof, & a dangerous one at that. First - if he is not attending committee meetings he is not fulfilling his duties as Committee Chair. One of the main duties of a CC is to run the committee meetings. Next - A CC can't be registered as both a CC & a CM. One or the other, but not both. Your CM needs to get in touch with your DC or UC & the Charter Org Rep AS SOON AS POSSIBLE & have a sit down meeting. It does not matter if he has no "power". The CM is one of the main unit leaders & this guy is trying to break the Pack apart. And, since you posted you already have a new CO in the wings, it sounds like the CC may get his wish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FScouter Posted January 20, 2006 Share Posted January 20, 2006 My comments were soley to johndaigler's query about leadership teams in general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quitka Posted January 20, 2006 Author Share Posted January 20, 2006 Thanks for the advice. If this CC HAD taken training, maybe he'd know how things work, that CC and CM can't be the same. The twist is, I've been refering him as the "CC", but he is really the Tiger DL. Just to make it easier to discuss, I've been refering him as the CC. Apparently, the paperwork never went in to officially make him CC. This happened (I'm not sure exactly) due to complaints about the guy: harrassing scouts, showing up in military uniform vs. scout uniform, etc. So the DLs, CMs, wanted to see how this leaders conduct fared. In the CMs absence, he has conducted meetings like military inspections, scolding them on their uniforms, yelling at them to be quiet, etc. (if he went to training, he'd know the scout sign for quiet). So I think that the bottom line is, 1) the Tiger DL is upset he found out he's not the "official" CC. (therefore has no power) 2) As you say, he has gone to the CO with power intentions. 3) He had told some of us that the CO will revoke our charter unless we agree to "kick out" the current CM and ACM (who has agreed to step down if we all want), hence the "mutiny". Trouble is, we all feel this guy is a questionable. Maybe I should recommend to him to head a JROTC unit or Civil Air Patrol instead of scouts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScoutNut Posted January 20, 2006 Share Posted January 20, 2006 OK, so this guy is a den leader who wants to be a Den Leader, Cub Master AND Committee Chair? All at once? Without taking training in anything? AND he yells at & harasses scouts? Whoo-Boy! He is not just a goof, he is a Youth Protection nightmare waiting to happen. Good Luck!! Keep us updated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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