PDA

[Eamonn]

The Ship spent the weekend at a Sea Scout Winter Training Weekend in Maryland.

I know we have a few Forum Members from that area and you guys are lucky to have such a wonderful facility as Camp Round Meadow in Catoctin Mountain Park.

I had a friend of mine with me and we both decided we would take the adult training's that were being offered.

We took the NLE course,Adult Basic Venture Leader Training and the Sea Scouting Leaders Specialized Training.

It was a little strange for me. Other than the specialized training I had presented all the other courses but I had never sat through them!! My take on how they were presented is good for another thread.

As many of you know we are new to Sea Scouting and the Ship (Sea Scout units are called Ships) has only been around for a few months.

We are finding our feet and things are starting to shape up.

We do have elected youth leaders. The program which at first was coming from yours truly is now coming from the youth members. We are holding monthly Quarterdeck meetings (A lot like a PLC,but the portions are bigger and they never stop eating.) We, at the request of the Scouts are fully uniformed.

All in all I'm happy with the way things are going and the direction in which we are heading.

One thing we don't have is set of rules or bylaws or call them what you will.

In some of the Venturing material it does say that this is a good idea.

We do have a document that we all (The Ship Committee and the Quarterdeck members) put together or maybe I should say are working on, that we need to get the Ship recognized by the IRS as a charity 501©(3).

It in very broad strokes outlines has a set of bylaws, but mainly deals with who does what and who doesn't.

Other things that have come up we have dealt with at the Quarterdeck meetings. To be very honest there hasn't been a lot. We have the term of office for Officers, what the dues will be and how money raised from fund raising events will be distributed. All of this in minuted and recorded in the Ships Quarterdeck Minute Book and was shared with the Scouts at a Ship meeting.

I was a very good little fellow at the training, even when some of the stuff wasn't exactly right I didn't say anything (I didn't want to become a pain.)

Someone mentioned PDA's?

I wasn't thinking that well and thought that they had said or had intended to say PFD (Personal Floatation Device)But they really did mean PDA.

I had no idea what they were talking about.

It turned out PDA stands for Public Displays of Affection.

We have two Sea Scouts that are going out together. I think dating might be a little more that what they are doing. She is 17 and he is 16. They are both in the HS marching band.

The guy presenting the course seemed to have a thing about all this PDA stuff. He made it seem that two kids holding hands would bring about the end of scouting and cause a big black hole to gobble us all up.

He was resolute that each and every Ship have rules and bylaws on the books that would deal with any PDA.

I admit that having females in a Scouting unit is new to me.

I agree that there is a point where certain behaviour is not acceptable. I fail to see where two teenagers holding hands when their hands are not supposed to be doing something else is the end of the world as we know it.

I have known the Lad since he was a little fellow. I know both sets of parents.

This PDA thing was new to me and I was unsure what to do or if I should do anything.

In the end I decided that I should do something.

I had a chat with them both.

I used the Scout Law to let them both know that I trusted them and how certain things done in public would be seen as not being Courteous.We talked for a little while about what Obedient meant. I don't know if they sensed my uneasiness and were feeling a little sorry for me, but they were both very open and very understanding.

When their parents came to pick them up from my house after the weekend I had a chat with both sets of parents. It was really strange they thanked me. It seems that both sets of parents were harboring some concerns about their kid going over the line or a little too far, but they hadn't known how to address their fears.

I'm going to bring up the subject of PDA's at the Quarterdeck meeting this Sunday.

My feeling is that we don't need a rule or a bylaw. We do need for us old people to be alert and willing to talk with our coed youth.

Of course I'm really very jealous. When I was 16, I attended an all boys school, there were no girls in any of the Scout units I was in, so I didn't have anyone to hold hands with, let alone sneak a quick kiss.

My problem is that I was born 35 years to soon!!

Eamonn.

 

[resqman]

In other posts about rules and regs with units, some people say to write every possible thing down and others say use common sense. The idea I liked the most was use the Scout Law as a guide line. Certainly you need a document listing how the unit is chartered and governed. Things like how and how often unit leaders are elected, chosen, withdraw the sword from the stone, or whatever.

 

PDA is one of those areas where people know when it has gone too far when they see it but vary when they write down the rules. Those involved in the PDA are often too involved in their PDA to be aware of others around.

 

I believe that giving a heads up to the couple that you would like them to respect the feelings of others in the unit and to limit PDA to be a reasonable course of action. If other members start making comments, then you would need to remind the couple of your agreement to limit PDA. At this age, the kids need some wiggle room to be able to set their own limits.

Let the unit set the standard unoffically by thier reactions, not by some list of rules.

 

 

 

[John-in-KC]

My crew is not co-ed ... yet. Will that day ever come? Maybe.

 

Other area Crews are co-ed. The rules are voiced, rather than written, and fairly simple:

 

- Leave the emotional part of the relationship at the door.

- Understand that if you break up, you are both still welcome in the Crew.

- Understand that your teamwork is essential to the Crew working well.

- Understand we enforce the rules on sleeping areas (gender AND age separation).

 

(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

[GonzoArrowman]

This leads (indirectly) to another question: Lets say you have "Jack", age 19 and "Jill" age 20 in your venture crew. Jack and Jill are a very stable couple, and both very dedicated to their unit. Soon birthdays come around and Jack is 20 and Jill turns 21.

Should they stop seeing each other until Jack turn 21 as well? What would the council say? What could the council do? What should the Advisor do?

[John-in-KC]

To my way of thinking, again, common sense applies: Check the emotional relationship at the Crew door.

 

The next simplest solution is Jack and Jill register as ACMs/ASMs in Cub/Boy Scouting. They are then Scouters in a program.

 

 

[Crew21_Adv]

As stated earlier, PDA has been discussed in Scouter.com and other scouting discussion groups. Like most everyone here, I take the advise and sometimes I like to share my own experiences. Hopefully, this will be both......

 

PDA topics do place the crew and advisors in difficult positions. I personally have three of my own teens, two in the Troop, one in the Crew, and one off in college. About myself even more, I have continued to tell Boy Scouts, Venturers, fellow Scouters and Parents, that I have everyone's benefit in mind. I am looking forward to everyone's success, not just my own, not just my children, but everyone. If they wish to experience what Scouting and Venturing has to offer to build the character, I want to help them as much as possible.

(Sometimes, adults and youth can tend to believe Scouters are out for their own childs agenda. And trust and respect has to be earned and gained, not demanded)

 

A recommendation I have heard earlier. Is to have the Crew create guidance in their own bylaws. I really concur with an earlier advice having the Crew define what PDA is and what the consequences are.

 

I've had to tell three couples in my Crew, to "cool it" during Venturing meetings and events. But I would prefer that the Crew members be the voice of reason to the PDA disruptions. Sometimes it is like talking to a brick wall, it is sometimes difficult to get responsible teens to understand the difference in their parents approving a date and the time the spend with a girlfriend/boyfriend at a youth organization.

 

Now... How does an adult handle it? Yell? Pull the offenders apart? Make up rules on the spot?

 

And if PDA offenders are disciplined. When have they learned decorum and public behavior and personal space? At what point can we state, that they are redeemed? What is the length of the discipline? 10 minutes, 10 weeks? 10 events?

 

Now... Some months earlier, as an Associate Advisor, I've had to explain to the Advisor of some PDA that has gone overboard.

 

A humorous and friendly teen is sometimes disarming to some Venturer girls. I have witnessed unwelcomed roaming hands. But the offender was essentially a good young man, who made a bad judgement at the time. The previous Advisor disregarding my observations, believing my vision was impared. Later to be ridiculed as being too concerned of PDA and that Mr"Crew21Adv" doesn't like to see teens holding hands, in front of the Crew. This insult harms a person's respect. (As I stated earlier, the respect has to be earned, and earning this is not an easy task with teens)

 

Does this PDA cross the boundry to rape? WOW, that is a difficult call. Was it inappropriate touching, yes. I believe the parents would question it more than I did.

 

I have also been told by the Crew Committee Chair about another venturing girl, who have sat on the laps (and bumped and grinded) with older Boy Scouts. This young lady is very friendly and hugs everyone after Crew events. (I try to stand her to the side and pat her on the shoulder, as if she had a horrible disease) But at what point do I say.. "You can't hug everyone! You are not someone's little sister or little girl anymore, you are an older teen!" I would hope it isn't the Advisors job to have that discussion, I didn't read that chapter in the Venturing Leaders Manual.

 

As an Associate Advisor, do you simply pull the offenders aside and counsel them, stating you just don't do this. When you don't have the support of the Advisor.

 

Each of these PDA violators really are good youth (with a momentary lapse of good judgement)

 

Now fast forward to becoming the Advisor. I've had to take my "Advisor's Minute" to explain to the Crew that a couch built with two seat cushions and maybe room for four Venturers just can hold a capacity of fifteen. Even watching the Venturing YPG video for them, was a difficult adventure. Two beanbag chairs just can't quite hold seven Venturers.

 

I feel that I have now earned their respect, or maybe just their attention for a minute. I haven't seen as much PDA. Those that still conduct PDA feel ashamed momentarily (maybe because they got caught???) In short, I think my gravestone Epitaph will read. "Please sit up...Please sit up...Please sit up... Please sit up..."

 

 

 

Now about the 20 and 21 y/o Jack and Jill.. That is a toughie! I was a 20 y/o, married, Assistant Scoutmaster myself. My own children were on the scene shortly after I was 20. I don't know what a Council would say... But I always tell my teens...

 

"I'm not perfect...But throughout life, you have to make decisions, they may be good decisions, they may be bad decisions. Hopefully, I will make good decisions (most of the time). Hopefully, you will make good decisions too. Hopefully we can look back on our lives and say 'I did the right thing'"

 

Sometimes, when mentoring, I share my own personal motto with my teens and others. "To be a better man tomorrow, than I was today"

 

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21_Adv

 

 

P.S. I have not had to tell my own teen that touching has gone overboard into roaming areas. But I have had to tell my own teen to Sit Up!

[OldGreyEagle]

on the topic of Venturing Couples where one is 20 and the other turns 21 and registers as a Crew Leader, the Venturing Youth Protection Guidelines are quite clear. The relationship is to end. Venturing adults socializing with Venture youth is called Fraterization and is prohibited. Check the online Youth Protection for Venturers for BSA.

 

I make no statement for or against this policy.

[SWScouter]

Wow, and to think I thought this thread would be about Personal Digital Assistants. (This message has been edited by SWScouter)