Scouting & ESPN

[scotiacat]

During last nights college Bowl game on ESPN, the BYU (Brigham Young University) Cougars had the ball and the announcers were talking about their (Mormon) Church Service where they were required to go to other areas and do their church work. It was during this discussion with the co-announcer that they also mentioned of the 92 players, there were 30 Eagle Scouts on the team. Interesting...

[GopherJudy]

Isn't that a lot of Eagle Scouts? Do the LDS scouts have different requirements for Eagle Scout? The reason I'm asking this is because it's been mentioned here that they do some things different & at the moment the only thing I can think of is that they don't have Tiger Cubs & I think someone said their Cub Scout dens are arranged (can't think of a better term) differently that other dens.

 

Judy

[theysawyoucomin']

I saw on a TV show(OMG,I am trusting TV) that the LDS church's youth program is Boy Scouts. So I would assume if your church is the center of your community/culture as it may be for folks that continue their faith by attending BYU that those boys were raised in a community/culture where scouting received a large amount of community/parental/cultural support.

Contrast that with my town where Scouts are looked down upon and Scouting seems to come last after sports etc.

I would say that their "village " places a value on Scouting and fosters it as much as possible. Hence the large amount of Eagles.

 

It sure seems as though they have alot of accidents there. Did you see the Leatherman between the eyes?

I know, you stick one kid it the forehead and they never let you forget it.

Wouldn't be joking if the kid suffer permanent damage.

[RMV]

I am not LDS, but have worked with many LDS folks in the past.

 

Here are what I have seen as the main differences for programming. They do not have Tigers or two year Webelos programs. The Boy Scout program really doesn't start till the young man is 12, the first year of Boy Scouting, they are a part of the Blazer group, which is registered in the Troop, but actually doesn't fully participate with the Troop.

 

The younger Scouts are considered a part of the Primary group for the church and when they turn 12, he joins the Priesthood. So they have matched the Scouting programs up to their church program.

 

The Church has chosen Boy Scouting as their youth program and fully support it. They actually use the Chartering Organization concept better than most. When they need a SM, they don't try and convince a parent to take over and fold when no one steps forward. They select the next leader and they move into the position. This has some positives and negatives that go with it, but ownership of a unit by a Chartering Organization means that they can decide how they want to do this.

 

Because the turnover happens at times when there is no training or the new leader doesn't know anything about our culture and what is available to them, it may explain why there seems to be more accidents. I actually think that because there are such a high % of Scouts in the State, that the % of injuries is probably about the same as anywhere, the volume is just higher.

 

The other difference is that they stay in the troop for a couple of years and then move to the Varsity Team. This keeps the young men in Scouting groups that match their Sunday school clases. Other than these organization things, the requirements for Eagle are the same.

 

RMV

[GopherJudy]

RMV,

 

Thanks for clarification on LDS Scouts.

 

Judy

[Greying Beaver]

We, my family, are not LDS, but my son-in-law is LDS and an Eagle scout. When I became aware of the differences in how the LDS'ers run their scouting programs, I asked him about his scouting experiences. The best way to sum up what he said would be to say that the pressure on the youngsters to make Eagle - and make it early - is tremendous. LDS troops do not go to Philmont because to carry all of your gear from one camp to another on a Sunday would be "laboring on the Sabbath" which is forbidden. And, trek iteneraries are so tighly scheduled that crews cannot "lay-over" on a Sunday without putting a big strain on the facilities of any of the back country camps. Our son worked on staff at PSR this past summer and he confirmed this.

 

Here's something to file away: While it is true that LDS units comprise just over 30% of the total number of units in BSA, the total membership in BSA in the LDS churches, youth and adult, comprise 11% of the total BSA membership. Why? Every LDS congregation is the CO for a pack, troop, team, and crew. Girls are not allowed to join LDS-chartered crews (They have been known to join crews outside their congregations, though.). And . . . every youngster in the congregation is registered in the age-appropriate unit whether or not he is active in the unit, and the congregation picks up the tab for the registration of very boy in every unit, active or not. All adult leaders are appointed(!) by the head of the congregation, after prayerful consideration of the head of the congregaion, of course, and must serve for at least one year. The annual turn-over rate of LDS adult leaders is the highest in BSA of all denomination-sponsored units. Many do not fulfill that minimum one-year obligation because of a lack of training and prior experience in BSA. While the number of adult leaders in LDS units who go through position-specific training is rising, the percentage of trained LDS adult leaders is proportionally the lowest of any church-sponsored units in BSA. Further, those LDS adult leaders who do go through position-specific training go through those trainings at LDS-sponsored training sessions. I found this out when I went through Unit Commissioner Basic training. It was held at an LDS church. Except for two others and myself, everybody in the training session was an LDS'er. Our well-worn uniforms stuck out in that room full of brand-new uniforms! The training was the BSA training program, and the presentations were by-the-book, but too many times the presenters emphasized getting new leaders to go top training. This was in early October and noblody had to be reminded of what had happened to LDS scouts earlier in the summer.

 

Thirty percent of a group of 90 LDS football players at BYU are Eagle scouts? Sounds skewed here outside "the community", but very beleiveable.

 

G.B.

[John-in-KC]

FWIW:

 

Philmont Training Center provides an entire week to LDS for national level training. Mind you, virtually the rest of all religions combined can fit into Relationships Week.

 

 

[acco40]

I saw on a TV show (OMG,I am trusting TV) that the LDS church's youth program is Boy Scouts.

 

This may sound picayune but the LDS church's male youth program is Boy Scouts. That is why you will see zero female leaders in an LDS troop (SMs & SAs).

[Greying Beaver]

John-in-KC: Yes, the LDS'ers have one-week adult training sessions at PLS. There was one going on at the same time Cutest BobWhite and I took Venture Leader Training a couple of summers ago at PSR. Man, they formed their "community" in a New York Minute! They did not associate with anyone else the whole time. Part of the training for us was about the LDS church, how it is organized at the local level, and how to approach them, including the terminology and phraseology needed not to put them off (I kid you not!). My son-in-law verified everything that was presented.

Talk about protocall! You have to first speak to the Stake Presedent (congregation chair) to obtain his permission to speak to the Bishop (pastor), that you have prayerfully considered the telephone call to him, the President, and that such a telephone call would be in the best interest of the priesthood of young men in the Stake, and woudl assist them in preparing for their 2-year mission and would be of further benefit for them afterwards when they rejoin thier bretheren or continue their education at (guess where?, hopefully. Did you know that BYU offers a major in Professional Scouting?! For true!). All of this to get permission to speak to the LDS's troops' SM! If you don't believe me, try calling an LDS-sponsored troop SM and see what he asks you before you get started especially if you are from outside the community. Can you say "Cloistered"?

 

My comment above was about why LDS units do not take advantage of the 2-week trek program a PSR.

[John-in-KC]

GB: Understood on LDS units not attending PSR. My comment was to the size of the LDS contingent coming to PTC; from the calendars I've seen, I thought they took over the entire "tent city" at the Training side.

 

Acco: Not so fast, Kee-mo-sob-eee. One of our District Commissioners, and the Director of our Council Bear Overnight Resident Camp program, is an active LDS woman. She is a huge resource in our Council since she knows both sides of the program.

[Greying Beaver]

J-in-K.C.: Agreed about the size of the LDS contingent at PTC. Have a look at the PTC training calendar. The LDS'ers have a whole week all to themselves ( I think.)

 

Please understand, we are not knocking the LDS'ers or their way of presenting the boy scout program. They just do things so differently from those of us not "in the community".

[Prairie_Scouter]

Kinda sounds to me like LDS units are "kinda" doing the Scouting program.