Service Projects again

[CNYScouter]

OK, I just dont get it.

My daughter came home from her Girl Scout meeting and told us what her Troops service project for the Holidays is.

We are expected to give her $15 so the Troop can go and buy gifts and items for a needy family. A notice came home with her that said that she could only ask immediate members of her family and could not go out and solicit donations for this money.

 

My son came home again from his troop meeting in which they spent the meeting making a craft to sell and then the money will be donated to another charity. This and the cookie dough (its a dry mix) sale are the troops service projects for the year.

 

Getting involved does not seem to be the answer as neither of these projects were brought up for discussion and were decided to be done by one or two people.

 

Its not that I dont think these are things that need to be done, but are not in my definition of service projects.

My kids youth group at church went down to work in a kitchen to feed the homeless.

This is my idea of a service project.

My son and daughter didnt really want to attend, but my son came home and was smiling when he told me that he scrubbed pots and pans for the 2 hours they were there.

 

My wife and I are the only ones who seem to have a problem with this (or at least we are the only ones saying anything).

Perhaps this is part of the reason my daughter GS Troop went from 17 girls last year to 5 this year (and I dont think my daughter is interested in staying in this much longer either).

 

Im beginning to think that I am wrong to want to oppose these types of things as no one else seems to have any issues with doing these, but I dont see the kids getting much out of activities like this.

 

 

 

[John-in-KC]

To my 1KB of flesh-and-blood RAM, fundraising does NOT rise to the level of a service project.

 

Cannot talk to the Girl Scout unit. I've not even tried to understand their organization and structure.

 

As far as the troop goes, I'd have a talk with the CC and SM. If they are unwilling to back away from unit fundraising as service, I'd ask son if he wants to find a new troop. If he so chooses, and when you do find a new troop, I'd finally drop a friendly word with the Chartered Org Rep and the Executive Officer of the Chartered Partner.

[SemperParatus]

CNYS,

 

I agree with you 100%. Don't you think its about time to move on to another troop - or maybe, start a new one that does things right. My fear is that your son may decide that his youth group is way cooler than scouts and choose one over the other.

[Lisabob]

Semper writes:

"My fear is that your son may decide that his youth group is way cooler than scouts and choose one over the other."

 

Gee I hate to say it in a forum dedicated to scouting but that would be my hope! Putting the recruiting/retention game aside for a minute, if a unit isn't serving its members well and serious efforts at improvement just don't work then those kids (and parents) ought to go find something more worthwhile and fun to do with their time, effort, and money. Hopefully that will mean joining a better unit but that's not always an option and I wouldn't feel too badly about counseling a kid to focus on the youth group in that case.

 

Lisa'bob

[Lisabob]

CNY, out of curiousity, if these two "service projects" weren't even discussed, who are the "one or two people" that set them up? Also, has anyone in this group discussed participation in more legitimate service projects? Is the problem that the group doesn't know what other alternatives they could pursue (they need to be inspired with some ideas), or is it that they have identified other service projects they'd like to do, but don't have volunteers to help organize them or just haven't followed through (they need more leaders/parents to step up to the plate)?

 

What would happen if you proposed to these groups that they go to work at the local soup kitchen? Or have you already tried that? Maybe even just your son's patrol could decide to do this on their own as a patrol activity, rather than waiting around for the troop leadership to get their act together. (sorry, I don't recall how GS troops are organized but there must be something similar to a patrol?)

 

Nope, you're not out of bounds in terms of your perception that these so-called service projects are pretty flimsy.

 

Lisa'bob

A good old bobwhite too!

[Beavah]

Often times donating or raising money is a more helpful form of service for a charity than doing labor. The money can be more easily directed to exactly match a real need than 20 kid laborers who are only available on Saturday the 21st.

 

And it's not a bad thing to get kids into the habit of thinking about giving financially to charity as a form of service. That's a habit I hope my kids will carry with them into adulthood.

 

That having been said, I certainly wouldn't want this to be the only form of service a troop does. There is also a huge value in kids being hands-on in their service, where they can really see the need, and really feel the effects of their contribution. I would want that to be a big part of a troop's service efforts.

 

The most disturbing here, though, is the "dictated" nature of this service. Service is only service if it is something that the kids themselves agree to give to. Something that they themselves choose. As described, this seems more like an assigned chore than a generous sacrifice.

 

[Lisabob]

Beavah, you're right that financial donations are often more helpful and in fact, what many charities want. The problem from a BSA standpoint is that in general, units are not allowed to raise funds for outside entities.

 

Here's a quote on this subject from the Sagamore Council website. (I tried to find the nat'l policy that they refer to online but no luck - then again that could be because I haven't had any coffee yet this morning.)

 

"Scouts Cannot Raise Funds for Other Groups

 

It is a national policy of the Boy Scouts of America that Scouts may not raise funds for other organizations. This includes any activity whose primary purpose is to raise funds. This does not preclude Scouts from doing service projects as they have done in the past. This is not a new policy, it just needs to be re-emphasized."

 

link to the above:

http://www.sagamoresignals.com/

 

 

[CNYScouter]

It just seems that everywhere a charity is asking us to donate money or goods.

Our church has a tree with gifts for the needy we are asked to purchase.

Our kids schools are always asking for donations of food and new clothes for us to but and donate.

Even at work, we were asked to bring in a new toy for a Christmas giveaway.

I think that these are all worthwhile efforts, I was hoping that Scouting was the place the my kids would actually go and give service to a charity.

 

A do agree that it is often

 

As to the Units Service Projects:

 

One of the Boy Scout Troops fundraiser service projects was talked about at a Committee meeting but it was already decided that it would be done and the details of what needed to do be done were discussed. However, it was never mentioned that this would be done at a Troop meeting.

 

The other fundraiser, my son showed up at a Troop meeting and started working on a craft to sell. This was not discussed at a Committee meeting and he (nor I) had no idea that this service project was taking place.

 

The only thing positive I can say that this is more than our first troop did in the way of service projects.

In the 2 years we were in the troop the only service projects scheduled were Eagle Projects (about 2 a year).

 

As far as my daughters GS troop, her two leaders decide everything.

 

We have suggested different ideas but in my sons troop, no one else seems to have issues with doing these for projects. Also, the last time I made a suggestion about soemthing with the Troop I was told, by the CC, I should wait and learn how this troop does things before suggesting something.

 

Our ideas for service projects seem to be ignored in the GS Troop.

 

As for not having enough volunteers, Ive stopped volunteering for things because I am very rarely asked to do anything.

In the 4 years, I have been a Scout leader, I can count on one hand the times I have been asked to do something.

 

Everything I have done I have followed through and done a good job.

 

The only thing I have ever turned down was when I was asked if I wanted to be a UC.

At the time, I was the CC for a Pack and an ASM for a troop and there was no way I could take on another role.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ScoutNut]

CNY, it's not the programs, it's the leaders. Both the BS & GS Troops should be youth run & they aren't.

 

What amazes me is when the leaders start complaining that the youth are not participating in the "service projects". They just don't understand that if the project was one that the kids had come up with, or at least agreed to, they would be much more likely to participate. And, to do so enthusiastically!

 

[Lisabob]

CNY, I hope you didn't take my questions in the thread to suggest that I didn't think you were sufficiently active. I just was wondering who in the troop was actually deciding to do these "projects" since it apparently is not the committee. From the description you've given so far I'd be willing to bet it wasn't the PLC either. So is it the CC? The SM?

 

As for your CC telling to wait and learn how the troop is run, well, it sounds like you've done that, and now the CC can't feed you that excuse again when you speak up next time.

 

A couple thoughts on how to begin rectify the situation:

 

1. Approach the CC well before an upcoming committee meeting and ask to speak with him/her about the service projects. Ask that service projects be a discussion item on the agenda for the next committee meeting. Outline your concerns and come armed with a couple examples of "do-able" and interesting projects that the troop could do, if they chose. Give the CC some time to consider and ask him/her who else needs to be brought in to this discussion. Be sure to couch this in terms of an offer to help rather than disillusionment with the current approach.

 

As part of this discussion, tactfully point out that BSA units are simply not allowed to raise money for outside groups, no matter how worthwhile. So service needs to be something different from fund raising.

 

2.Assuming the troop leadership agrees to at least explore the idea of doing more service work, help them develop a list of service organizations and charities in your community. You could contact one or more of these organizations to inquire about what kind of service help they might like. Armed with a better knowledge of what's "out there," the troop (both adults and boys) might be more willing to try some new projects.

 

3. If the troop has patrols and your son is interested in doing more service, he and his patrol could do a service project together. (Someone else will need to fill in the details here about who the patrol has to clear this with but there's no basic reason they can't do a service project on their own, if they want to.) His patrol might be an example for the rest of the troop to follow. Of course - this has to be something he wants to do and not just a thinly disguised attempt on your end to "make" them do it, which could backfire on you.

 

4. Make sure you include outdoor projects in your definition of service. State and local parks often have community service projects (like removing invasive species or erosion control) that have the benefit of being pre-organized (you just show up at the appointed time) and simple. For a group that doesn't have much experience with service, this can be a good way to start.

 

Stick with it CNY, it will be worth it in the longer run.

 

Oh...and you're trained for your troop position, right? I find it is easier for existing leaders who aren't doing things they way they ought to, to "blow off" constructive criticism from people who haven't been trained. Esp. for former cub leaders - some troop leaders seem to take a "you're from Cubs, what do you know" attitude.

 

Lisa'bob

A good old bobwhite too!