Why do adults quit?

[Venividi]

I just read the list that Kudu posted, and I think we're all better off for that guy's leaving the program.

 

I also read the list, and saw the classic signs of burnout - sounds like he was venting. Appears to me that he was handling things himself that the committee should have been doing (tour permits, paperwork, training for parents), dealing with parents that didn't support him (the how come Johnny has to ... type reasons. ) All these things get old and frustrating after a while. I think it possible that the troop would have been better off if the committee had taken steps before the volunteer reached the point of frustration. And perhaps tapped his knowledge as a "SM emeritus" afterwards.

 

[msnowman]

Having only (so far) been a registered Cub adult I have to say that boy interest/aging out seems to play a pretty big role in losing registered Cub Adults. The burnout factor sets in too on those people who have been holding 2 or more positions for a length of time (that's me). Another factor on the Cub side (IMHO) is the "I was there when it was my boy, its your turn now". Though it is true that the adults don't always leave when their boy ages out of Cubs. Our Pack CC's grandson bridged to BS 2 years ago and my own Scout did the same last year. Yet she and I are both active. I am stepping down as CM due to the burnout & "its your turn" factor, but I am still doing a combo Wolf/Bear den. We have a new Tiger leader who has no boy in the program but wants to see the program succeed so she agreed to come back also.

 

However, with time constraints I'm worried that by not being ableto take a more active role in the Troop, our family will be perceived as being uninvolved. Den leader takes a lot of time. But, I am taking on a Troop committee role since several members of the Troop are leaving because their boys have aged out or are going to Sea Scouts.

 

YiS

Michelle

[AvidSM]

They have had enough.

 

You have to have an appetite for Scouting. A hunger to contribute something to it.

 

Some people can't stand what's being served (Kudu's 86 reasons) and lose their appetite. Others get their full and leave (a son in the program).

 

People leave for many reasons, personnal and otherwise. But, there are some who can never get enough, no matter what is being served, no matter how the menu changes. They still feel they have something to contribute and they care about the program.

 

 

[Lynda J]

I think all of the above apply. There is also a problem with some leaders accepting the fact that this program should be run by the boys and they have a problem not being in control. But also there is a lack of many younger adults to make long term committements (30ish age group, Sorry guys). I have been working in some form of scouting as an adult for 40 years. Was in scouting from 2nd grade through high school. My own son went through the program to Star and is now 34. Currently he is not involved but plans to be later. My daughter was in GS through highschool. My mother graduated her last GS troop from high school shortly after turning 70 and had a troop before I was old enough to be in the program. At time of her death at 75 was registered as an assistant leader. My grandmother was working with GS until her death at 75. I guess it is simply breed into me.

I think there will always be a few people out there that have a total committement to the program long ofter their own children have left the nest. On of our District Commissioners has been in scouting for over 75 years.

At going on 60, I have no interest is not working in this program. Kevin (my foster) is 12 will earn Life in December. He loves scouting and is talking about wanting to be a JASM.

Like my wonderfully wise Gram always said

"Your community is like a tree, you are either a leaf that feeds it of mistletoe that sucks it dry.

Be dang sure you are always a leaf. So I will continue to be a leaf and sometimes the entire limb.

[Beavah]

I gots a chuckle out of Kudu's friend's list. If you read it closely, ya can identify some common themes in his points.

 

Burnout themes/causes that can/should be fixed in the program:

* Excessive and unnecessary BSA paperwork/bureaucracy.

* Lack of support/follow through from parent volunteers and council pros.

* Advancement stuff that undermines scouting's goals.

* Poor behaviors by fellow scouters.

* Poor council communications.

 

Burnout themes/causes that are probably inevitable and need to be counteracted by support and humor:

* Lack of courtesy from scouts and parents.

 

Good reasons for leaving:

* Personal freedom to do other things without responsibility for kids.

* Becoming impatient with ordinary kid behaviors.

* Time to move on and pursue other volunteer work, strengthen ties to family, or enjoy other hobbies.

 

 

[EagleDadx3]

I think we might be able to keep more adults if we look at why adults stay.

Most ex-scouters can tell you exactly why they quit, but it's a little more difficult to understand why we stay.

There are a lot of "negatives" in any organization. Where there are people, eventually, there will be conflicts. We can blame training, communication, differences of opinion, etc. These stresses can make it easy to quit. They can also be a reason to stay. Some people thrive on stress and conflict, others chose to leave. I don't believe this is healthy for the organization.

There must be some need that being a scouter fills: serving our youth, adult fellowship, camping, fun, and conversely, power, control, domination, etc. Sometimes scouter will hang around just to see what the heck will happen next! That being said, if the reason or reasons for a particular scouter to stay in scouting is taken away, the scouter will find a reason to leave.

If we nurture the positive needs of scouters, we will lose fewer of them.

[SemperParatus]

Sooner or later, we will all quit for one reason or another. As long as the good outweighs the bad, count me in.

[baden]

I haven't quit and have no intent to. However, I attended our District's "Program Preview" (Fall kickoff} in August and left shaking my head. Camping? Barely mentioned. Training? Ditto. Advancement? Ditto-ditto. One and a half hours of Sign-up for Scouting, Popcorn sales, re-charter, and FOS. Anyguesses who set the agenda? I endured it, but watched some first-timers sit through it and wondered what they were thinking. All this stuff is important, but at times I think it is the be all end all of Scouting today. I will stay with my unit, but am burning out on the constant demands from Council for our time and money. I think the tail is wagging the dog.

[FScouter]

"I think the tail is wagging the dog."

 

I wonder if your district has a volunteer Program Chair, or a Camping and Outdoor Promotion chair, an Activities and Civic Service chair, Training chair, and Advancement chair? If there are no volunteers in place, it's no wonder the Program Preview was a little lacking in program. "Council" has nothing at all to do with that.

[Eagledad]

>>If there are no volunteers in place, it's no wonder the Program Preview was a little lacking in program. "Council" has nothing at all to do with that.

[baden]

I agree with Eagledad. The Council has the ability to set the agenda. I have served as District Commissioner and District Training Chairman in the past. Many good Scouters are not sought out for these positions as they are viewed as hostile to the Council. I don't view them as hostile, they just have a different agenda. Years ago I was chairing a District Commissioners meeting that was visited by our Scout Exec. and Council Commissioner. I was surprised and pleased to see them. They told us to continue with our regular meeting as they were just visiting. We plunged ahead and had what I thought was a constructive session. My D.E. called the next day and told me our Exec. was upset by the negative tone of our meeting and said we dwelled too much on problem Units. I got a letter from the Council Commish encouraging me to share success stories with the Unit Commissioners and not overwhelm them with problems. I served out my 3 year term and declined the opportunity to re-up for a year. I find that being a Unit Scouter is the best place for me to be and that the further I stay from the mechanics of District and Council operations the happier I am.

 

I know many fine Scouters that are not directly involved with a Unit. They serve many valuable functions in the areas of Training, properties, finance, activities, advancement, and on and on. They are not the reason Scouting exists. The District and to some extent the Council are artificial entities. They should exist only to support units. The units do not exist to support the District or Council. This concept gets lost in the shuffle sometimes.

 

This confusion sometimes results in the loss of Unit Leaders. It is often hard to tell when a District or Council Scouter quits as they sometimes don't create a vacancy, but when a Unit Scouter quits it immediately impacts a number of boys.

[AvidSM]

I have seen some veteran scouters quit because of their frustration with Council. These are volunteers that have donated a lot of material and hundreds of hours of their time.

These people were not valued because donated material or time does not show up on the executive's performance rating.

 

When people feel that what they do is not being seen as any value, they quit. Council can't seem to get this. They run themselves like a business - by the numbers. The executive that can't produce more scouts, more units and more money is seen as a poor performer.

 

We are lucky because our District, for the most part, is run like a family. People are friendly to each other and we value each others opinions and efforts. We accept our Council for the way it is and do our best to work around it. When one of us gets frustrated in our dealings with Council, the others give their empathy and support.

[Lisabob]

Eagledadx3 I think you're right that we need to focus on keeping existing leaders happy. With that in mind I've been thinking about why I volunteered to start with and why I've stayed involved, and why, recently, I have considered leaving more frequently than in the past (ie, what's changed?)

 

I started out as just a parent. Not that I was unwilling to lend a hand at den meetings and pack fundraisers, etc., but I never intended to be a leader.

 

I agreed to be a leader after a nasty adult blow out left our den without a leader, our pack without a CM, and the committee with a lot of holes. Really it was self interest. Either we were going to do it or nobody would and my son wouldn't have a program. My husband agreed to be a den leader, I got involved with the committee. We convinced a friend in the pack to step up as CM.

 

The first year was very stressful as we started re-building the leadership and the program. People outside of scouting kept asking why I would do this. I became increasingly involved because I discovered I really enjoyed working with the boys. And it gave us a wonderful opportunity to share some neat experiences with our son. And I ended up becoming friends with many of the other leaders and parents beyond just scouting. As the pack regrouped, things began to be a lot of fun again and we provided what I think was an awesome program. So: to serve the youth, to support the program, to reap personal benefits in terms of stronger family and community ties.

 

In the last year my son has moved from cub scouts to boy scouts. I now have a committee position with the troop and have worked on a couple of district projects. I probably won't quit, but this thread has made me think more about the big picture. What's changed?

 

1. District jobs seem to be more about district politics and bean counting than about serving the youth, or for that matter, serving the unit leaders.

2. District leaders haven't been forthcoming about expectations. Twice now I've agreed to specific tasks, believing I understood exactly what the job entailed, only to discover part way through that I was also expected to do a bunch of other things that hadn't been mentioned in the initial job outline. If I had known at the outset, I would have said "no" because I am truly unable to meet some of these expectations (conflicting time commitments for the most part, and I can hardly quit my job). I get the feeling that's why they didn't tell me about certain expectations up front. I'm not one to quit part-way through, but it makes me reluctant to volunteer for future district projects.

 

3. For all their talk about welcoming new families, the troop does a poor job of this. Partly this is due to the fact that they have a very robust adult leader cadre already (last troop meeting, 18 adult leaders and 14 boys attended) and really do not have a lot of open positions to fill. I'm on the committee but I don't have any particular task other than being a warm body. They just really don't seem to need new leaders. So it isn't about contributing to the greater good or to the unit-level program.

4. Most of the troop leaders are long-time members with boys who are either aged out of the program, or who have been with the troop for at least 3 years. Their willingness to volunteer so much of their time is to be admired. But, these adult leaders know each other well and - I'm sure unintentionally - tend to get "clique-y." I'm not shy and I don't think I normally lack social skills either but after nearly a year of trying to be fairly actively involved, I still wouldn't consider a single one of these people as anything more than a familiar face. New parents with questions or concerns tend to get a very stand-offish response ("well this is just the way it's done" rather than "Let me explain what we're doing and why we do it this way"). I'm sure it is unintentional but it rubs new parents the wrong way and makes them feel unwelcome. So it surely isn't about camaraderie at this point.

5. Existing troop leaders don't seem too open to new ideas. Now for the most part I think they do a good job. But, there are some areas where I believe things could be improved and I could/would help do it - if they were interested, which they're not. Specifically I think they could benefit from reviewing their webelos-scout plan and new family orientation. There's an age gap of about 3 years between the first year scouts and most of the rest of the troop. And if this year is an indicator of how things typically go, I can see why they have a high attrition rate among first year scouts/families. The adult leadership have not done a very good job of communicating with new families regarding how the troop works or what the expectations are for the parents and the boys. But there's no interest in changing anything - in fact, there seems to be some denial here. I'm sorry to see a lot of these families and their sons leave scouting, but since this is an area the existing leadership doesn't wish to address there's not a whole lot I can do. So it isn't about serving youth either.

 

For me right now it is not about supporting the program, serving youth, or personal benefits. So why am I still there? Mainly because if I quit, I think my son would too (I've seen this happen, when parents lose interest, their boys usually fade out too). I still believe in the program and what it has to offer our young men in general, my guy in particular. That's a good enough reason.

[anarchist]

I am not Richard Dawson, nor do I play him on TV...but

 

 

THE NUMBER ONE ANSWER IS: "my kid is "out" of scouting...."

(sub catagories; aged out, eagled out,doesn't like it...)

 

The Number two answer is: "I don't like the way they (the old gang) run the troop...."

 

The number three answer is: "I am tired of dealing with '---- ---' (you fill in the blanks) parents"

 

The number four answer is: "I am tired of having no help"

 

The number five answer is :"I am tired of dealing with BSA (DISTRICT, COUNCIL) B.S."

 

just a wild guess though....

anarchist

[kittle]

I haven't read the rest of the responses, but would like to add to the discussion. Maybe they get tired of dealing with disrespectful boys. I had a Webelos meeting tonight that could seriously make me consider quitting if I didn't like the program so much. It did make up my mind that I will get this Webelos year over and then I will be stepping down from Cubs and working with my son's Troop. I will join back with the Cubs when my younger son is old enough for Scouts.