personnel conflict over relig issue - what next?

[FScouter]

Mental note to myself - Maintain close ties to our chartered organization.

[Backpacker]

After all this time this restriction is just now becoming an issue, there is something vital that is missing in this story. If the CO backs the COR, which they probably do, then your only option is to find a new CO. This is probably a no win battle for the troop, go find a VFW or service club to sponsor you then these problems will simply go away.

[mom162]

Thanks all, for more input here. Thank you scoutldr, especially, for clear-sighted remarks. I think I have gathered enough to mull over, and I thank you all for your time.

[SemperParatus]

mom,

 

Please keep us posted on the final outcome. I love happy endings, and I think you are headed for one...whether you get a more reasonable COR or start a new troop with the church that wants to sponsor your group.

[scoutldr]

mom,

 

My opinions were meant to be honest feedback, not criticism. Hope you took it as such. Good luck and as Semper said, keep us updated. Don't give up on Scouting. The boys need it.

 

scoutldr

[anarchist]

mom162,

 

First and formost good luck!

 

Having gone through an extremely similar situation (but with space use not diet as issue) I would like to offer some practical advice.

 

First you need to have a lang number of the Committee and SM/ASM corp in "your" corner.

 

Then you need to find out a very critical piece of information: what is the actual (real) control structure of you CO. This is extemely important! You may find that the "IH" is not really the power in the CO.

 

Example: in or case after being seriously impacted by a financial-space decision made by the IH...(both the IH put his foot down and the COR...basically said the troop would leave over his dead body...not a good sign! However, during a major set of meetings with church members we found that the real power in the CO (church) was the church board of trustees NOT the "IH" (who was really sort of a CEO serving at the pleasure of the Board).

 

Our CC and SM (our whole committee in the wings)requested a meeting and sat down with the board after finding out the real power structure.And this was after nearly six months of getting very little (no) real help from the IH.

 

After giving "it" the old 'college try- a true attempt at "making" a bad situation work, and having several church board members visit our meetings to witness the impact of the new space "restrictions"... we were able to find a new CO, leave the CO of 19 years on respectful terms that allowed for the transfer of the troop number, equipment and bank account.

 

But the CC and SM worked really hard at keeping things professional, honest and most of all respectful and even acknowleging being very grateful for the past assistance the church had given us (a room for 19 years but really nothing else). The tact we took was the space use decision "they" had taken affected the health and future growth of the troop.

 

What we found was sore feelings on the church boards part (not at us, but at their own IH who had assured them the troop would not be affected) These feelings were actually lessened when they were reassured that we were not moving "out of anger or spite", but to keep the troop together and growing. It just may be possible to get in front of the real power and speak your piece...and hit a home run.

 

While the COR may be aware of the BSA-CO relationship, I have been surprised by the number of COs who did not understand the gear and bank account let alone troop number actually belonged to them. If handled well you have better than a 50-50 chance of walking away with all you need. But keep it as friendly as possible.

YiS

Anarchist

[mom162]

Happy Thanksgiving to everyone!

 

I thought I would put a follow-up post here, for anyone who is interested. Sometimes a thread just fades and you wonder what ever happened. We haven't had a meeting with the CO yet, but the COR mentioned at the last troop meeting, in front of all of us parents, that he was working on getting the meeting scheduled, and that in itself seemed like a step forward - out in the open, everyone cordial but aware and interested.

 

A few of us had a long discussion with the CC, and it seems clear that the CO needs to decide if we will be non-denominational or denominational, but that our current recruiting materials and By-Laws are not clear enough, and we seem to be trying to be both at once. Whatever happened when the troop was new and small, it's grown now, and now it's a problem. If the CO decides to close membership to any who are not in the right faith, then we'll have to have all the current boys move to a new troop, and deal fairly and honorably with the issue of equipment. The old troop will have all the equipment but no boys in it, and a lot of the equipment was donated by the new SM and one ASM who plans to follow the boys.

 

If we stay non-denominational, then we will ask to form a patrol or two with the CO's (and COR's) help for boys of the CO faith. Either way, that feels like the core issue - whether there's one troop or two, we need those boys and their families to make this a reality for the community! Because of my husband's background, and the age of my son (a new scout, age eleven) I'm clearer than most of the other parents on both the religious issues and the reasons why so many of my son's friends of that faith don't join scouting. I've been talking to parents for the last few years about schedule problems, conflicts with religious school hours etc. I think the head of the CO and the COR are a little too far from the parents of potential new recruits (not familiar enough with Scouting, on one hand, and kids are all grown, on the other) to have an idea of how to make things better, and I am up for the challenge if they want my help. The CC has invited me to the meeting, when it happens, and I hope to help keep the discussion focused on what's best for the boys and not on egos or who's right or wrong.

 

Thanks again for all your input, everyone, and I hope this is a great Thanksgiving for you all. (Now I have to go cook...)

- mom162

[Novice_Cubmaster]

Hi Mom162,

 

Scoutldr did sum it up the best, but I would like to add a bit.

 

Since the troop is a part of the Charter Org as well as BSA, then the troop should respect any rules specific to the Charter Org. In truth, any troop event/activity is an event/activity of the CO.

 

So, I don't believe the COR is violating BSA religious principals here - the rules about food are the same at a troop campout and any other CO activity.

 

OK - so much for the black and white. Let's get into the gray areas.

 

I am a practicing Reform Jew. In our congregation, many events involve food. In Reform Judaism, the degree to which we keep kosher is a matter of conscience. At an event with food, nobody brings anything that is inherently unkosher (no pork, shellfish, cheeseburger casserole, meat of uncertain status, etc.), which works for most of us, but some families only eat the food that they've brought. Paper plates & plastic disposable cutlery solve most other problems.

 

If your CO is a Reform congregation, you may have more latitude than you (or the COR) know. In fact, the Rabbi and board may decide that keeping kosher at troop events is a personal thing, in which case some of the stoves & cookware can be divided up as needed. In a conservative or orthodox congregation, the rules are going to be much stricter.

 

Hopefully, a decision will come down that works for all parties.

 

Good Luck,

NC.

 

PS - Personal "kosher" camping story. I found out about turkey bacon while camping with my older son's troop (their CO is Methodist). Most of their adult leaders have been read the riot act about cholesterol and fat, and had to make the change. For me, a yummy new option at breakfast. Some brands of turkey bacon are really good.